2024 Chinese GP

[TFSA]

To me, Norris shuts down near Max and i don't get why. Off course max with that rocket ship is faster but it is mainly in free air. Don't let him pass like is Leman's and you are in a lesser category, annoy him.. delay him, try to make him to cook his tires.
Damn i wish some times to have in some cars Alonso or even Magnusen, let's see how you will pass them.

I don't see that at all.

From the recent races i remember:
Silverstone 23: Norris did fight pretty hard to maintain the P1 he got on the start, but Max was simply too fast and got by on lap 5.

Austin 23, Max did a flawless overtake, where he was behind Norris, came in fast, and then pulled out from behind him in the very last second, leaving Norris with no time to react, and therefore no defense.
Many people mistakingly classified this overtake as an instance of him "Just letting Max by", but Max really pull off a pretty much perfect overtake there (his overtake on Leclerc at the same race was not-so-perfect, and probably should have been penalized).
You could argue that Norris should have gone for the inside line, but I'm pretty sure Max would have gotten him on the switchback then, since T12 is a wide, but tight low-speed corner (~110 degree), and going for the inside line there is gonna cost you a lot of speed on the next run.

Beyond that, as others have pointed out, drivers need to pick their fights.

[LetHimTrough]

In My opinion Norris just needs a couple of races like Leclerc had with the SF 75, where he had the chance to show he can fight Max and even coming on top with some brilliant racing.

I don't doubt Norris can do the same, unfortunately he has been as Charles in a car where they need to go slightly above the limits that which sometimes causes errors.

I just imagine how incredible a 3 Way fight between Max, Norris and Charles would be. Because I Think they are the only 3 that can push each other to the maximum in the actual Grid.

[Just_a_fan]

To me, Norris shuts down near Max and i don't get why. Off course max with that rocket ship is faster but it is mainly in free air. Don't let him pass like is Leman's and you are in a lesser category, annoy him.. delay him, try to make him to cook his tires.
Damn i wish some times to have in some cars Alonso or even Magnusen, let's see how you will pass them.

Lando and Max are bosom buddies.

Having said that, Max has enough spare car performance under him that he can pass anyone anyway so anything going on on track these days is moot - why fight a guy that will just drive around you at the next corner?

[langedweil]

This whole buddies/friends narrative is kinda bonkers, this is F1 lads .. nothing comes for free, and exactly that is why everyone picks their battles carefully. Although maybe not the truly desired outcome, 2nd is always better dan 4th/5th on worn-out tires .. especially regarding to WCC (which in the end is what this is all about).

And as for calling AMR pathetic for asking about clearance of ruling, that's a bit harsh in my opinion. All teams do this, as they should. Countering that with examples from the past is just whataboutism; why have a rule that's not being lived by ? Get rid of it, or fix it.
MB played the safety card about ridehight, RB asked if it was allowed to bypass the fuelflowrate sensor (and there are way way more examples); it is imho exactly that what makes F1 what it is or really should be. The main issue maybe is overregulation (AN and others mentioned this) that kills innovation in solutioning and/or interpretation.
Asking for clarification is imo not at all related to being pathetic.

[Sieper]

“Look at the context” is your invention for scenic effect, I don’t even think the word context appears in the document , they go back to quote plenty of examples where this happened in the last years and show how this is consistent.
https://reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/ ... dismissed/

The only thing here is that AM are a pathetic organization.

by 'context' I meant the consensus they sought from all teams, about how to approach the interpretation of the rulebook for the quali crash and recovery under red flag by Sainz.

The aim of my post was not to evaluate AM as a team and their ethical/moral/legal loci w.r.t the sport. The aim of my post was to show how FIA stewards are 'selective' when showing practical-real-world-logic when interpreting the black and white printed in a rulebook.

A team protested THEIR interpretation of the rule against a very consistent application of that rule by the stewards for ages. The Stewards even allowed their interpretation to change based on the opinion of team principals.

The funniest part of the document is when Stewards report that even AM had to agree that the interpretation from Stewards made sense.

This has absolutely nothing to do with black and white application, this is a team that thought they could be smart and stewards even gave them an hearing instead of dismissing of frivolous grounds.

And the Sainz penalty on leclerc… again fia has never penalized team mates even for crashes like alpine in Australia. But now it should penalize Sainz? Again pathetic.

<you seem to be in love with the word "pathetic">

So if a driver makes an action that deserves docking some points on his super-licence, he will escape scot free if that action is against his teammate, but get punished if that action is against a guy from another team. They may have implemented this way 100 times, but it is still wrong.

Couldn’t agree with you more, but if you are looking for consistency, which you seem to hint at below, then this is what it looks like.

As for the other penalties, maybe drivers should try not to push other cars off track? It’s not the stewards fault if they can’t race cleanly. Dive bomb and push wide is not a valid race move.

Again, I am not talking about the morality/sporting-conduct etc of the action by the divebomber. I am talking about the treatment of the two examples of the same action, differently, without consistency.
Take the Magnussen incident, why was not docked licence points, but Alonso was ? And why Alonso docked 3 points but Stroll docked only 2 ? Stroll's action deserved 5 penalty points, on scale.

I don’t really consider penalty points to be a real penalty, has anyone been suspended on them? Gasly escaped disqualification a few times after being capped on points and not being docked any on following violations. Most drivers are far from the cap as well. These points are currently teethless.

But sure I agree that the application of those penalties is incosistent but I presume intentionality plays a role. Dive bombing is intentional, being daddy’s child isn’t intentional despite clear incompetence, so smaller violation.
[/quote]

Lewis as well, after his 2 start infringements in Sochi.

I think they think it would really be a loss of face for F1 to disqualify someone on license penalty points, so if possible at all they will avoid pushing someone above 12.

[PlatinumZealot]

I think Norris is quicker than Max he just hasn't got the car to fight and unfortunately McLaren will never deliver him a contender. RedBull is just too evolved compared to Mclaren.

[langedweil]

I think Norris is quicker than Max he just hasn't got the car to fight and unfortunately McLaren will never deliver him a contender. RedBull is just too evolved compared to Mclaren.

Based on anything ?

[Cs98]

I think Norris is quicker than Max he just hasn't got the car to fight and unfortunately McLaren will never deliver him a contender. RedBull is just too evolved compared to Mclaren.

Based on anything ?

Wishful thinking.

[Seanspeed]

I think Norris is quicker than Max

That's certainly a take.

[slinger]

Max should invite Norris out for a RB18 weekend at Silverstone...

[venkyhere]

I think Norris is quicker than Max he just hasn't got the car to fight and unfortunately McLaren will never deliver him a contender. RedBull is just too evolved compared to Mclaren.

This man, an 'expert' thought the same too. Eight years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=yFXO4qyzgDg

I perfectly understand why Hamilton fans can't accept that Max is a generational talent. It's a polarizing sport. It's human nature to talk down the guy who everyone says is better than 'my hero'. We see this all the time - Messi v Ronaldo , Federer v Nadal, Lara v Tendulkar , etc. Understandable. I'm sure Sam Collins too fell prey to this 'my guy, not the other guy' syndrome.

[f1isgood]

After spending a bit of time here, it is clear who the legit baiters are. Just thought there'd be better discourse here than on other platforms but it looks like the Internet is suboptimal to say the least.

[Sieper]

There actually is some merit in thinking Lando is quicker than Max. I don’t think so but I do rate him highly. This website (link hereunder) uses a calculation to try and compare real performance of drivers.

In 2022 Lando was actually the best performer;

https://f1-analysis.com/2022/11/22/2022 ... /3/#s-tier

Make of it what you will. A calculation exercise, but to me, it comes quite close almost each year to how my “feeling” of how drivers actually performed is.

[Just_a_fan]

I perfectly understand why Hamilton fans can't accept that Max is a generational talent.

Some fans. The rest are perfectly happy to say the guy is right up there. Don't have to like a guy to admit he's good at what he does. Likewise Max fans and Hamilton.

Generational talents are, obviously, rare. Ayrton, Michael, Lewis, Max are the obvious ones from recent history. Others might suggest others, of course.

[Sieper]

Suggest, then I suggest to ad Alonso. I would go a bit further than merely suggesting it. I would firmly advise to do so.