2024 Miami Grand Prix - Miami Intl. Autodrome, May 03 - 05

[101FlyingDutchman]

I'm just telling the story, he couldn't pass PER on track. When PIA passed LEC it was in large part thanks to traction issues out of T16 for Ferrari through this weekend, are you pointing that out as well? OR that PIA couldn't get away from LEC once his tires were up to temperature? If you are waiting to evaluate cars only when they are perfect... it's a long wait.

You are saying that it was CERTAINLY (your words) not quicker on Mediums. And I’m saying there is absolutely no way you can make that statement with any certainty? What evidence backs up the claim? Him not passing PER clearly isn’t proof as overtaking with DRS coming off these corners isn’t easy. The fact that he set fastest lap times on 25 laps old mediums lap after lap tells me enough

I gave you enough evidence. PIA couldn't shake off LEC and NOR couldn't pass PER and was barely gaining on SAI after PER pitted even though SAI was dropping off LEC. And Max was faster than everyone else anyway.

There's a ton of evidence on this, certainly way more than that MCL was faster on Mediums.

Are you aware PIA had half the upgrade package? And likely worked the tyre very hard to get past LEC?
You are just arguing for arguing sake here. Max faster than everyone else? that’s a ridiculous statement as Max asked for Landos lap times in race and said, pffff that’s very very quick (in interview afterwards)
ALL the evidence points towards you being wrong today. Please see it for what it is

[AR3-GP]

I gave you enough evidence. PIA couldn't shake off LEC and NOR couldn't pass PER and was barely gaining on SAI after PER pitted even though SAI was dropping off LEC. And Max was faster than everyone else anyway.

This isn't quite accurate though. Perez basically had the highest top speed of any of the top 4 cars. We saw it in qualifying. It was even 2-3km/h higher than Verstappen's setting. Miami is a difficult track for overtaking especially when Red Bull can defend with their top speed which was much higher than that of Mclaren. Mclaren was the slowest team with DRS in qualifying.

in any case, Norris was going to overtake Perez on the main straight just as Perez peeled into the pits so that overtake was happening. It's irrevelant though because as I said, this circuit is tought to overtake on. It's the pace in clear air that we care about because that is the measure of performance.

Norris after being released was quicker than anyone before the safety car. Faster than all the people who pitted for hard tires for multiple laps until the SC came out.

[joseff]

It likely did. Happy for Lando, but Safety Car picking up the wrong car is completely unacceptable. From what i understand, Lando would have been P4 or P5 if Safety Car had picked him up as it should (unless he didn't pit, but why wouldn't he). They used to do it some seasons ago as well, and it's not the first time it's completely screwed up a race.
...

From the 2024 F1 Sporting Regulations, page 61:

55.6 The safety car will join the track with its orange lights illuminated and will do so regardless of
where the leader is.

55.9 When ordered to do so by the clerk of the course the observer in the car will use a green light
to signal to any cars between it and the leader that they should pass. These cars will continue at
reduced speed and without overtaking until they reach the line of cars behind the safety car.

55.10 Except under Article 55.12 below, the safety car shall be used at least until the leader is behind
it and all remaining cars are lined up behind him.
Once behind the safety car, the leader must keep within ten (10) car lengths of it (except under
Article 55.13 below).

[dialtone]

You are saying that it was CERTAINLY (your words) not quicker on Mediums. And I’m saying there is absolutely no way you can make that statement with any certainty? What evidence backs up the claim? Him not passing PER clearly isn’t proof as overtaking with DRS coming off these corners isn’t easy. The fact that he set fastest lap times on 25 laps old mediums lap after lap tells me enough

I gave you enough evidence. PIA couldn't shake off LEC and NOR couldn't pass PER and was barely gaining on SAI after PER pitted even though SAI was dropping off LEC. And Max was faster than everyone else anyway.

There's a ton of evidence on this, certainly way more than that MCL was faster on Mediums.

Are you aware PIA had half the upgrade package? And likely worked the tyre very hard to get past LEC?
You are just arguing for arguing sake here. Max faster than everyone else? that’s a ridiculous statement as Max asked for Landos lap times in race and said, pffff that’s very very quick (in interview afterwards)
ALL the evidence points towards you being wrong today. Please see it for what it is

I think Max was faster than NOR yeah on mediums. It's my opinion, not the truth, I'll check the data more later.

But Max had no reason to go for best times and was just preserving tires, then they pitted to cover LEC who pitted too early.

The pace on old mediums is justified by not being able to push the car that much with PER's pace but obviously the car made a huge step forward and is going to fight it closely with RBR if Ferrari doesn't bring a good update at Imola.

[venkyhere]

Feel very happy for NOR. Deserves it. Has been on the bad side of luck for a very long time.

To all those Ferrari/RedBull/VER fans who are sulking and trying to find reasons why 'pure luck' is the sole reason for NOR win :
- yes, NOR would not have had it easy when trying to overtake Ferrari and Redbull in the straights, because McLaren configured their car with highest DF and lowest topspeed
- yes, the safety car pitstop was luck
- but there is no way to say that without safety car, NOR or PIA wouldn't have overtaken ferraris and Redbulls in green flag racing, despite their straight speed disadvantage. Their pace on H was consistently 0.4-0.5s faster than both those teams, even if it was roughly matched pace on M.
- just accept that McLaren can be now declared to have finally nailed the ground effect and their newest update is a testament to it. Their perennial problem of slow corner traction is solved, without sacrificing their medium and high-speed prowess.
- just accept that NOR drove brilliantly and in hindsight, what Mclaren learnt with their H stint in FP1 was valuable.
- just accept that Ferrari/RedBull went wrong with their calculation/extrapolation/sim/algorithms, on how the H would render the balance on their cars, just from M and S data. They might have gotten that right many times before; but on this track where it was tyre-lottery w.r.t grip, their guesstimates were wrong.

Teams converging into same pace after 3 yrs of development, in a regulation era where there isn't any powerunit differences - that's par for the course, isn't it ? McLaren and Ferrari have done brilliantly, to catch up with RedBull. It deserves applause, rather than sulking. If anything, it promises that 2024 wont be like 2023.

[avantman]

Piastri didn't have the upgrades, so it's a bit hard to use his car to compare pace of other cars.

Piastri is always a lot slower than Lando on race pace even when their cars are equal. Mclaren was easily fastest car this weekend.

[avantman]

This race was boring A F.

Top couple cars basically gav3eup racing after the first stops as their speed delta wasn't good enough to facilitate any overtaking. All the action was stops and safety car luck.

all race this year has been like that. boring AF indeed. no matter who wins. Max and red bull weren't the problem.
we have incredibly good drivers, the best and the most talented grid so far. but the regulations, tires and silly tracks kill everything. So sad really...

[TFSA]

From the 2024 F1 Sporting Regulations, page 61:

The rules aren't the issue here. It's how they're employed in practice. Even with said rules in play, it was possible for Race Control to not have this happen.

First: Just because you "can" deploy it regardless of where the leader is, doesn't mean you should. You have other options, including deploying a VSC first, and then upgrading said VSC to a full Safety Car when the leader is approaching the end of his current lap.

Second: Even after they screwed it up initially, where the SC didn't catch the leading car, they were way too slow at allowing the cars by, so they could catch Norris. This resulted in several wasted laps that could have been used for racing, rather than just trotting around the track.

This was not well-managed at all.

[avantman]

man this has been manipulated man.

[Watto]

I’d like to go back through that prior to the safety car Max was around 11 seconds behind Lando then saw him dropping to 20 then 30 seconds, Was the SC with Max then? Or what was causing that drop off


Lando drove extremely well but was curious at the time

Yup, the SC caught Verstappen and Lando opened a gap.

Most likely Lando still comes up ahead but a bad pit stop could've lost him the race.
The SC picking up the wrong car gave Mclaren the thing on a platter (more than it had helped already).

Pretty poor.



But, Lando pretty easily pulled away so meh, drove extremely well. I almost think he may have been able to pass Max.

[ringo]

Yuki driver of the race for me.
Now in the top 10 for the championship. Very consistent with his performances.
Man is carrying VCARB on his back.
I would promote him to Redbull.
If Yuki get's the short end of the stick, then I would claim a bit if bias against the Japanese driver. But he's way better than all the options in Torro Rosso and I dar say better than Perez right now.

[Watto]

Yuki driver of the race for me.
Now in the top 10 for the championship. Very consistent with his performances.
Man is carrying VCARB on his back.
I would promote him to Redbull.
If Yuki get's the short end of the stick, then I would claim a bit if bias against the Japanese driver. But he's way better than all the options in Torro Rosso and I dar say better than Perez right now.

He is driving extremely well atm,

The question mark would be would be falter under the pressure of Max's team mate like Albon etc did first up. I guess there is only one way you'll know, but I don't think Perez is that far enough behind to risk it

Don't think its an easy thing to deal with - Lewis was a lot the same the closer his team mates got to him in his prime the more driven he was to improve and probably widen the gap.

[Watto]

Feel very happy for NOR. Deserves it. Has been on the bad side of luck for a very long time.

To all those Ferrari/RedBull/VER fans who are sulking and trying to find reasons why 'pure luck' is the sole reason for NOR win :
- yes, NOR would not have had it easy when trying to overtake Ferrari and Redbull in the straights, because McLaren configured their car with highest DF and lowest topspeed
- yes, the safety car pitstop was luck
- but there is no way to say that without safety car, NOR or PIA wouldn't have overtaken ferraris and Redbulls in green flag racing, despite their straight speed disadvantage. Their pace on H was consistently 0.4-0.5s faster than both those teams, even if it was roughly matched pace on M.
- just accept that McLaren can be now declared to have finally nailed the ground effect and their newest update is a testament to it. Their perennial problem of slow corner traction is solved, without sacrificing their medium and high-speed prowess.
- just accept that NOR drove brilliantly and in hindsight, what Mclaren learnt with their H stint in FP1 was valuable.
- just accept that Ferrari/RedBull went wrong with their calculation/extrapolation/sim/algorithms, on how the H would render the balance on their cars, just from M and S data. They might have gotten that right many times before; but on this track where it was tyre-lottery w.r.t grip, their guesstimates were wrong.

Teams converging into same pace after 3 yrs of development, in a regulation era where there isn't any powerunit differences - that's par for the course, isn't it ? McLaren and Ferrari have done brilliantly, to catch up with RedBull. It deserves applause, rather than sulking. If anything, it promises that 2024 wont be like 2023.

Yep.

Norris got the best possible outcome from the SC, but drove extremely well.

PLenty of drivers have gotten similar treatment and have not been able to put it all together (and plenty others have)


Norris just drove extremely well today.

[AR3-GP]

This race was boring A F.

Top couple cars basically gav3eup racing after the first stops as their speed delta wasn't good enough to facilitate any overtaking. All the action was stops and safety car luck.

I disagree. It was a good race. I enjoyed every moment. Driving an F1 car is art. Watching gaps grow and shrink or even just a stalemate is part of the sport. It's not trivial and should be appreciated more. Every time you see nothing happening, just remember that it's harder than it looks. Piastri and Perez trying to be inch perfect and keeping rivals at bay lap after lap was more impressive to watch than a DRS blow by. As I said before, it's harder than it looks and whenever you think it's boring, just remember that it is anything but for the drivers at the wheel.

[Silent Storm]

I gave you enough evidence. PIA couldn't shake off LEC and NOR couldn't pass PER and was barely gaining on SAI after PER pitted even though SAI was dropping off LEC. And Max was faster than everyone else anyway.

There's a ton of evidence on this, certainly way more than that MCL was faster on Mediums.

Are you aware PIA had half the upgrade package? And likely worked the tyre very hard to get past LEC?
You are just arguing for arguing sake here. Max faster than everyone else? that’s a ridiculous statement as Max asked for Landos lap times in race and said, pffff that’s very very quick (in interview afterwards)
ALL the evidence points towards you being wrong today. Please see it for what it is

I think Max was faster than NOR yeah on mediums. It's my opinion, not the truth, I'll check the data more later.

But Max had no reason to go for best times and was just preserving tires, then they pitted to cover LEC who pitted too early.

The pace on old mediums is justified by not being able to push the car that much with PER's pace but obviously the car made a huge step forward and is going to fight it closely with RBR if Ferrari doesn't bring a good update at Imola.

Max was told to reduce management gradually by lap 12-13.