Two Lollipop Men

[horse]

I just had a crazy thought that with no refuelling this year, perhaps two lollipop men would be better than just one. To illustrate my point consider the one lollipop man situation in the diagram below:



Here we see the focus of the pop man covering all four wheels of the car and the centre of his vision on the rear right wheel. Note that the arc is very wide and also note that to see up the pit lane widens that arc further (the red part). Now consider adding a second pop man on the other side of the car:



Here we see that with a second pop man both arcs of vision are much more narrow as they only look at the wheels on their side of the car. In addition, the centre line of the arc of vision for the lane side pit man now looks directly up the pit lane making it easy to see oncoming cars.

I'm aware having two lollipops makes it a bit more difficult for the driver as he now needs to wait on two signals to leave. However this may have a positive impact in making the driver less likely to jump if the lollipop twitches accidentally.

What do you think?

[PNSD]

Sounds interesting but I think there is more chance for error.

Pitlane mistakes are alot of the time due to the lollipop being lifted too early. With two men is the chance of this doubled? Other than that, I think drivers in the heat of the moment might react to only one and assume if one is up, then so is the other.

It is an interesting thought, especialy since over the years Ferrari, and now Brawn and Mclaren are focusing on no lollipop man.

[Giblet]

Plus the driver is running on pure adrenalin, trying to be smart at the same time. They are waiting for one thing to happen, then the trigger is pressed. Confusing the issue with a second lollypop would cause mistakes I think.

I think the lights make sense, now that the fuel hose is gone, the car is not able to leave until it lands, where with refueling, the wheels were changed, the car was lowered, them they had to wait for the lolly.

The driver should be able to leave as soon as the car is lowered, the lolly man is now not waiting for fuel to finsh, they are simply making sure the traffic is clear.

[Shrek]

I actually might think that there will be an extra person to clean out the radiators and Engine inlet and i've also thought that ther could be a person or two to clean the rubber off the wings.

[Giblet]

Also, the lollipop man is not checking the tires, he's just looking for each arm to be in the air of each wheel man.

The pit stops have a completely different dynamic now, and the lollypop man actually has less to do than last year.

[horse]

The driver should be able to leave as soon as the car is lowered, the lolly man is now not waiting for fuel to finsh, they are simply making sure the traffic is clear.

Yeah, you're probably right. If the responsibility for checking the wheels are sound is with the jack men then the lollipop man just has the simple function of checking for traffic once the car has dropped. I don't know about these no pop man systems though. Are they checking traffic from the pit wall? Do the drivers need to know about the condition of the wheels?

Also, the lollipop man is not checking the tires, he's just looking for each arm to be in the air of each wheel man.

The pit stops have a completely different dynamic now, and the lollypop man actually has less to do than last year.

If the pop man still has to check for hands though, you have the same line of sight issues. There is a lot less time to play with also.

[sknguy]

The FIA could require an audible (radioed) check procedure for the lollipop man to run through. One? "go", Two? "go", Three? "go", Four? "go" Five? "go", Six? "go" and Seven if there's refueling. The rear jackman calls for a check, and the lollipop man runs through the audible check. All systems go? release the car. The race control can monitor the checks to make sure people follow procedure.

The Lollipop guy could concentrate, visually, on pit lane activity and simply rely on audibles from the crew/checkpoints. And do quick visual on the car/driver if need be. The reason I say the FIA could require it is that this process would be a little more time consuming... which is something the teams wouldn't necessarily voluntarily do.

[axle]

It's not required. The guys doing the job are well trained and experienced at what to look for an when...

A persons field of view is wider than you've marked a quick flick of the eyes down the track will confirm if it's clear or not...though his periferal vision will already have already delivered that information.

Accidents happen but without refueling there is no longer a fire risk.

The light system is actually best as it allows the guy in charge to step back further and get a better view of the surroundings. The only change you could envisage is a spotter on the pit wall who could hold an override for the lights due to pitlane traffic...

[Lurk]

Since refuelling is forbidden during race, lollipop man just has to check the car is back on the ground and on-coming traffic.
So the only remaining risk is traffic and the best point of view to check is pitwall (from which you can see cars in the fastlane and released car).

I don't think the "overriding spotter" is a good idea. It could make confusion if he change his mind at the last moment (due to a non-seen car).
There is a lot of stress during a pit stop. The simple the system is, the better it is.

[ESPImperium]

Ive always thought that there should be lines accross the pit lane for the lollypop guy to better judge the safe realease of the car. Altho i can see how this could fit into a traffic light system and aid the safe realeas of a car into the pit lane.

Quoteing myself from thw winter testing thread:

What i was thinking about pit stops, is that there could be 2 ways for making them faster. Both however require the dredded trafic light system that Ferarri use.

Firstly, have the lollypop guy have a switch in his hand and have him in a very central posistion (Yellow Dot) so he has full vision of both sides of the car, front and rear.

Secondly, this inviolves the jackmen. Instead of have them at the front and rear of the car, have them use something like the bit of gear that jackes the car up in the middle, but on both sides (They already have one in the middle of the wall side of the stop in the pic).




Im thinking outside the box here, but i think it could work. Even if the front jack guy went and let the front of the car to be done by that bit of gear they use when they are doing a front wing change, giving the guy with the switch for the trafic lights more of a feild of vision.

With a traffic light system, if any car comes into the "zone of unsafe realease" the light would stay at red, but if the on coming car hasnt passes a beam, the light can change to green.

And i can see this being able to be enforced via the new standard GPS system the cars have all got from this year, and the fact the SECU could bring this into being as the car, as soon as it stops in its designated pit box, the front wheels have their brakes applied via the ECU if theres gonna be a unsafe realease, but are free to go if the realease is safe.

I know theres plenty going on with my probably overcomplicated system, but the safe realease of cars would aid a safeer pit lane.

[horse]

A persons field of view is wider than you've marked a quick flick of the eyes down the track will confirm if it's clear or not...though his periferal vision will already have already delivered that information.

Yeah, but my feeling is that it's very hard to concentrate on both your point of focus and your peripheral vision. Some of the poor releases last season might back this up. We're not rabbits after all.

Anyway, talking of alternative pit strategies, what are the two centre guys doing in this pit stop?

[marcush.]

A persons field of view is wider than you've marked a quick flick of the eyes down the track will confirm if it's clear or not...though his periferal vision will already have already delivered that information.

Yeah, but my feeling is that it's very hard to concentrate on both your point of focus and your peripheral vision. Some of the poor releases last season might back this up. We're not rabbits after all.

Anyway, talking of alternative pit strategies, what are the two centre guys doing in this pit stop?

keep the car from falling off the jacks,perhaps?

[Giblet]

It's not like the pit crew have no idea other cars have pitted.

They know that there is another car pitted, I've never seen a pit crew release a car INTO another car. Sometimes they cut it a bit too close, but that is why they are there.

I don't see a need to fix what isn't broke, with another worker that doesn't need to be there.

Keep the human element there, so like always, you win and lose as a team.

[marcush.]

It's not like the pit crew have no idea other cars have pitted.

They know that there is another car pitted, I've never seen a pit crew release a car INTO another car. Sometimes they cut it a bit too close, but that is why they are there.

I don't see a need to fix what isn't broke, with another worker that doesn't need to be there.

Keep the human element there, so like always, you win and lose as a team.

+1
You need a cool decisive guy there and you need the eye contact to that guy ,who knows if the radio is operative after all..

[horse]

IThey know that there is another car pitted, I've never seen a pit crew release a car INTO another car.

Never say never.

Ferrari fined $10,000 for pitlane collision

Anyway, it was a dumb idea, fine. Are McLaren's jacks a bit unstable, hence they have to hold the car still?