Driving style and fuel use

[Richard]

This is a new thread prompted by discussions that some drivers seem to use consistently less fuel than their team mates.

Firstly, has anyone got the data so we can have a quantified discussion?

Secondly what hypothetical driving style would aid optimising the fuel v lap time? For instance Hamilton seems to consistently use less fuel than Rosberg. That's even after fighting through the field at Monza or Spa when you'd expect aggressive driving to use more fuel than Rosberg running on an empty track.

I also expected Hamilton to suffer the most with fuel limits due his aggressive style. Maybe his famous late braking means he has longer in lift and coast. If two drivers lift at the same time then the late braker will have longer at higher speed. That means the late braker can lift a bit earlier without loosing lap time to the other driver?

Also Hamilton has a reputation for turning the car more aggressively. I recall seeing him in his debut season late braking into a hairpin, assuming he'd run wide on exit and begin surprised to see him get on the power earlier than the car he was passing (ie the one taking a conventional line).

Anyway that's just my random hypothesis trying to figure out how a so called 'aggressive' driver has lower fuel use than his teammate. Also, if I had that advantage I'd burn a bit more fuel to be a bit faster so why doesn't he?

What we really need is some teammate comparisons to see if other teams have similar marked differences.

[SectorOne]

I find this discussion absolutely fascinating and i can only hope someone with a mic starts asking some questions so we get some raw facts on the matter.

Firstly, has anyone got the data so we can have a quantified discussion?

From the singapore race thread. This is the only data i can find that is shown so late in the race.



But i would say that every single one of these in races except one instance in Bahrain, Hamilton had used less fuel.
Sometimes a kilo or less and sometimes as extreme as above. But then again none of them are from the last lap as this one.

or Spa when you'd expect aggressive driving to use more fuel than Rosberg running on an empty track.

Sure it´s SPA you mean? He never really caught anyone and he had a full lap on part throttle with the puncture.
Maybe you are talking about Germany?

-

Would be great to know what their respective fuel loads is to one another.
For example has Nico realized Hamilton is using less fuel thus decide to start the race with the same amount and just dealing with the fuel saving?

Or do they both start on Rosberg´s optimal fuel load in which Hamilton now has a problem lugging around fuel he will never use?

Or do they run optimal fuel load for each driver? In which why Rosberg needs to save more fuel is a bit strange.

[hollus]

this was from Sepang, from thejudge13.

Monaco with 9 laps to go (Reddit, from kecg73)


Middle of the race in China, also from Reddit (Davidmoose)


Seems to be consistent. In that discussion in Reddit they also say the Massa always uses less fuel than Bottas.

[Blanchimont]

China, lap 47 / 54:

HAM 76,65 kg
ROS 80,38 kg

source: http://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/commen ... erence_in/

@ hollus: Your last screenshot seems to be from Malaysia, it's the only race with 56 laps to do.

Edit: It seems the screenshot is from the China race, but because of the checkered flag incident at the finish F1.com says only 54 laps were counted for the race result. Sorry!

[SectorOne]

Monza about 1kg in difference throughout the race, also take note of Bottas and Massa.

[SiLo]

Bottas spent so long in the tow of another driver that could easily explain his lower fuel use when coupled with his obvious easy driving when it comes to how much he uses.

[SectorOne]

Bottas spent so long in the tow of another driver that could easily explain his lower fuel use when coupled with his obvious easy driving when it comes to how much he uses.

Used less in Hungary as well. Different graph this time though with fuel used per lap.

[Juzh]

Would be great to know what their respective fuel loads is to one another.
For example has Nico realized Hamilton is using less fuel thus decide to start the race with the same amount and just dealing with the fuel saving?

Depends on what makes him faster over the race. I doubt he'd be taking less fuel just because ham can do it as it could force him to fuel save too much and made him slower overall. IMO fuel consumption difference between them is too significant to be just a result of an earlier lift and coast methods employed by hamilton, it has to do with driving style. Hamilton often uses higher gears in hairpins and chicanes which will consume less fuel as it is. There's probably more to it, but that's what we can observe for sure.

Or do they both start on Rosberg´s optimal fuel load in which Hamilton now has a problem lugging around fuel he will never use?

Not in a million years would hamilton tow around 2-3 kilos of worthless luggage, especially in fuel. That's too much time lost over race distance. Team would not do this just for the sake of driver equality.

Or do they run optimal fuel load for each driver? In which why Rosberg needs to save more fuel is a bit strange.

I can't see what else could it be? They probably both run under fuelled as much as their style will allow it, but hamilton seems to have an inherent advantage here.

[iotar__]

Drivers have different driving styles that can result in different fuel consumption, just the way they drive at 100% to achieve lowest time to cover lap distance for particular individual. Little to do with talent because these were small differences that didn't "really" (I'm not sure how really hence "") matter until the 2014 rules. Example: Lap time = identical (without power/fuel trade off) but fuel consumed is different by 0,xxx (small).

This season differences are still small like 2 kg (or whatever it is) between Rosberg and Hamilton which is 0,xxx kg per lap but when they maximize performance/power/weight (? assumption they start with different fuel loads) to the limit as they always do in F1 it can create problems for one driver and not the other. It's a bit like with over and understeering preferences. These are not over-under steering as regular drivers understand them, we're talking about tenths, hundreds of a second, centimetres. As for what kind of style is more fuel friendly, I'd wait for drivers themselves to explain, longer gears seem obvious. Problem with Singapore and new rules: it brings focus on fuel because while fuel consumption may not be the biggest problem managing it can be (stages). Whether fuel saving and not speed should decide who's winning is a different topic.

It's probably me but the way it was described I imagined it like this: Hamilton can lift and coast at the end of the straight saving fuel like no one else, then (and this is important part) he's making up the lost time in corners which oversimplifying would mean to be on the throttle earlier than everybody else (how else?), this damn car needs fuel to run whether it's a corner or a straight . I imagined fast corners and Red Bull 10-13.

[SectorOne]

They probably both run under fuelled as much as their style will allow it, but hamilton seems to have an inherent advantage here.

But that´s the thing.

Assuming both run optimal fuel loads for their respective driving styles, would you not expect to see the same amount of fuel saving?
Say that´s not the case, then Hamilton with his optimized fuel load has an easier time to cope with his fuel loads and perhaps could have run lighter still, which would put him on the same level as Rosberg when it comes to the amount of fuel saving needed?

[danielk]

Ive been waiting for someone to make a thread on this. I have no idea the reasons for it but Hamilton does indeed seem to use less fuel than Rosberg.... I like most others always thought Hamilton would be thirsty on fuel. And people always said Hamilton will struggle with his fuel usage more than most. Cannot remember where I read it but I read it allot.

Williams generally use less fuel than anyone else and this must have something to do with the way they run their engine. But it does make sense. Williams have very good race pace usually. is this because they are running lighter than those around them?? but what allows them to do this?? do they have that philosophy to simply make their drivers fuel save more than others? so they can be faster at the beginning of the race or do they have some inherent advantage when it comes to fuel saving?? I would found this odd since they are running a Merc engine...

I hope that reporters start to ask the questions of teams and they are not too cagey to give us a proper answer.

[Phil]

Not in a million years would hamilton tow around 2-3 kilos of worthless luggage, especially in fuel. That's too much time lost over race distance. Team would not do this just for the sake of driver equality.

It's not exact science. They probably have their calculations based on the simulation runs that give them enough fuel to run on various engine performance maps throughout the race. The trend is probably to underfuel them slightly, because they usually qualify on the front row and with the performance differential to other cars, they can safely drive out a gap and go into a fuel-saving-mode while they control the race. Also, if it's a race where there's a high probability of a safety car, I would think that would be calculated into the fuel usage as well.

Back to Hamilton and Rosberg - why exactly is it unreasonable to think that they might be fueling both cars identical? Identical fual loads at the start of the race equals level playing field by default. Cars have the same weight, so in theory should be pretty identical to drive. The difference in fuel usage (and therefore weight of the car) only becomes apparent as the race goes on when one driver uses more than the other.

If I was driving at Mercedes and my team-mate used on averga 3kg less fuel by the end of the race than I did - I wouldn't want him to start with 3kg of less fuel. Then I'd rather be underfueled myself (quicker lap times) and perhaps be forced to save-fuel a bit more at a crucial stage of the race then being disadvantaged early on. Which is why (and adding to the big level-playing-field ethos Mercedes seem to going at), I don't see Hamilton benefiting from his fuel usage skill.

That and what Sector pointed out earlier - if Hamilton would be running with less fuel, why is it still Rosberg who usually gets the "save fuel Nico" messages?

[adrianjordan]

Williams generally use less fuel than anyone else and this must have something to do with the way they run their engine. But it does make sense. Williams have very good race pace usually. is this because they are running lighter than those around them?? but what allows them to do this?? do they have that philosophy to simply make their drivers fuel save more than others? so they can be faster at the beginning of the race or do they have some inherent advantage when it comes to fuel saving?? I would found this odd since they are running a Merc engine...

Am I right in thinking that it is generally accepted that the Williams car is relatively low drag? In which case presumably that would account for some of their fuel saving advantage...

[wgknestrick]

"Low drag" is also why I think Hamilton consistently uses less fuel than ROS. I suspect he runs less wing on average. I find it very hard to see how "driving" habits in a race setting would very significantly enough to see a difference in fuel usage. I recall ROS attempting every pass on HAM during braking where his increase in wing would be an advantage.

They constantly have to either be on the throttle, or brakes with no "coasting" (outside of apex) in a perfect world. While these cars are significantly different from past cars, I don't see the advantage in coasting when trying to compete for ultimate lap times.

[Sevach]

I would imagine guys who carry more momentum into the corners would benefit from this in comparison to "slow in fast out" drivers.