2017 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

[FLuidd]

I have always said that recycling guys like Allison and Pat Fry is stupid, and by this I mean that Allison is overrated and ferrari did the right thing getting rid of him, regarding pat fry all i can say that his cars are garbage.

Now getting rid of these 2 guys is the best thing that can happen for ferrari, even better since ferrari got brought fresh blood in the aerodynamics department and gave more space to those who worked under Allison.

that being said i think starting now ferrari are on their way to challenge the titles.

This stupid habit of recycling engineers and drivers is bad for f1, the difference being that some drivers have sponsors and can be use to advertise and bring money to the team.

There are many examples here, beyond 2000 villeneuve, beyond 2008 massa and other dumpster tier drivers like sutil and liuzzi that stayed in f1 more than they should have.

The same goes for engineers like fry that practically destroyed ferrari.

That being said i think marchione did the right thing to boot allison and bring fresh blood and i strongly believe that until 2020, ferrari will win at least 1 f1 title.

[g70]

I have always said that recycling guys like Allison and Pat Fry is stupid, and by this I mean that Allison is overrated and ferrari did the right thing getting rid of him, regarding pat fry all i can say that his cars are garbage.

Now getting rid of these 2 guys is the best thing that can happen for ferrari, even better since ferrari got brought fresh blood in the aerodynamics department and gave more space to those who worked under Allison.

that being said i think starting now ferrari are on their way to challenge the titles.

This stupid habit of recycling engineers and drivers is bad for f1, the difference being that some drivers have sponsors and can be use to advertise and bring money to the team.

There are many examples here, beyond 2000 villeneuve, beyond 2008 massa and other dumpster tier drivers like sutil and liuzzi that stayed in f1 more than they should have.

The same goes for engineers like fry that practically destroyed ferrari.

That being said i think marchione did the right thing to boot allison and bring fresh blood and i strongly believe that until 2020, ferrari will win at least 1 f1 title.

Not, the real stupid thing was to let go away Schummy with Todt, Broun, Byrne and later Costa, Simon etc.
But I have a dream:
1) Luca di Montezemolo instead of Toto Wolf at Mercedes
2) Stefano Domenicali instead of Christian Horner at RB

[dans79]

"direction", "structure" empty gimmick words, where is "streamlining" , not a single material world detail = not that valuable, would you agree?

Have you ever managed a technical or engineering team?

I have, and I can tell you from personal experience structure and direction are critical things to get right when dealing with free thinkers.

One department I took over was horrendous everything was a debate, and almost everyone was off experimenting with what they thought was the correct solution to a problem. They very first thing I did was put a command and control structure in place. I made it very clear who was a senior who was a supervisor and who reported to who, and who had the final say. I also made sure each sub group had a specific "direction" to pursue. after a few months departmental throughput increased significantly. To be fare, I lost a few employees as they preferred the academic style free-for-all.

[PlatinumZealot]

The academic free-for all is very benfeicial and should be encouraged in the "off-seasons" as I like to call it. It is also good if the engineering manager has "academic freestyling" experience even if it was decades ago. The worst thing is to have an engineering leader who does not know one iota what he is talking about. So yes structre is great but I never underestimate the "X-factor." those are the people that give you the edge. The sheer numbers of aero staff that Mercedes has (over 200?) allows such acadmeic freestyling becuase they can afford large R&D budgets. McLaren used to be a team like this though Prodomu seemed to have put a lid on the engineering freedom. There is almost nothing spectacular about the Prodomu directed cars.

[SR71]

The academic free-for all is very benfeicial and should be encouraged in the "off-seasons" as I like to call it. It is also good if the engineering manager has "academic freestyling" experience even if it was decades ago. The worst thing is to have an engineering leader who does not know one iota what he is talking about. So yes structre is great but I never underestimate the "X-factor." those are the people that give you the edge. The sheer numbers of aero staff that Mercedes has (over 200?) allows such acadmeic freestyling becuase they can afford large R&D budgets. McLaren used to be a team like this though Prodomu seemed to have put a lid on the engineering freedom. There is almost nothing spectacular about the Prodomu directed cars.

Most teams run 3 design teams if I remember correctly and run in 3 year phases. For this explanation let's use mercedes 2019 car.

-Team 1 is starting the 2019 car this year (2016-2017) and most likely already have. This is the free thinkers team - they are exploring high level concepts that have more scope for experimentation and failure.

-Team 2 takes the helms later this year (Q3 2017). They will take the best results from Team 1's design exploration and try to define a platform that will be the baseline for the actual 2019 car. Most likely not a lot of free thinking - this is time sensitive rational design work - any risks were baked in from Team 1's proposals.

-Team 3 begins work in 2018. They will be charged with finalizing the car's design and also responsible for in season development. Team 3 will have moderate free thinking - inevitably you will discover things about your car during the season you had not expected and if you're clever enough can extract some performance from new discoveries.

Now regulation shake ups change this timeline a bit but thats basically how the top teams are structured.

A technical head will be responsible for all 3 teams although various managers will give charge and direction. Nonetheless the top technical director must extract the maximum from each team. I highly doubt a TD with allisons experience has a hard time with such configurations.

[Pierce89]

from what i know.. Allison just did the initial "team building" setup like brawn did.. at Ferrari

The expectation that a technical head does any design work has always amused me, they are senior managers with 100's of engineer's and dozen's of department heads reporting, they are too busy to get their hands dirty like this.

As above, they are there to build the structure and give to direction, any thought of them designing is just madness.

While TDs generally aren't stuck in front of the CAD workstation, they generally have to have a strong engineering background to make decisions between multiple designs making similar numbers based on their knowledge and experience. Some, like Gascoyne, were said to be so "hands on" that they would personally change designs from their design staff before signing a off on them.

[dans79]

The worst thing is to have an engineering leader who does not know one iota what he is talking about.

I've had mangers like that in the past, and it's infuriating.

So yes structre is great but I never underestimate the "X-factor." those are the people that give you the edge.

Imo, a good manager knows who can be given carte blanche, and who needs to be given specific directions. I have carte blanche in my current position, but I have a lot of years of experience, and know what rabbit holes aren't worth investigating, and when its time to cut your losses.

[dren]

It's amazing that some engineers require constant direction. We have a few at work. Others, you can give simple requirements and unleash.

[diego.liv]

It's amazing that some engineers require constant direction. We have a few at work. Others, you can give simple requirements and unleash.

No shame in that, some good people that I know need constant direction and some even need some boundaries, they work better than if they were given a clean sheet with (almost) no limitations. It's studied in psychology, it doesn't affect just people's work life (HR department should support managers/supervisors of necessary)

[Schuttelberg]

I love how everyone is trying to understand how Ferrari are so quick? Was it Allison? Was it the restructuring?

Jesus Christ, the only thing Ferrari have proven is that they're reliable. Mercedes-Benz are 3 times WCC! Are people here seriously so naive to believe that Ferrari have overcome that massive deficit over one winter?

I'll just remind everyone that Ferrari have a track record of poor in season development for a good decade now and a strategy team that was frequently described as a 'sham' last year. Ferrari, a lot like last year, have been quick when it least matters. Testing/Practice!

IMO, it's just dumb to contemplate anyone but Mercedes as firm favourites.

[turbof1]

I love how everyone is trying to understand how Ferrari are so quick? Was it Allison? Was it the restructuring?

Jesus Christ, the only thing Ferrari have proven is that they're reliable. Mercedes-Benz are 3 times WCC! Are people here seriously so naive to believe that Ferrari have overcome that massive deficit over one winter?

I'll just remind everyone that Ferrari have a track record of poor in season development for a good decade now and a strategy team that was frequently described as a 'sham' last year. Ferrari, a lot like last year, have been quick when it least matters. Testing/Practice!

IMO, it's just dumb to contemplate anyone but Mercedes as firm favourites.

Did you actually took the effort to read the discussion? Not a single post questioned why Ferrari got so quick. Everything written was about whether Allison had a design impact or not on the SF70H, and how a team manages design freedom.The whole discussion revolved around management and not the car performance.

Talking about a rant, that's one right there. Please read what's being said next time.

Original discussion got moved over from the Mercedes team thread, for the record.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

It's amazing that some engineers require constant direction. We have a few at work. Others, you can give simple requirements and unleash.

It depends upon the leadership style one has and what culture they have built around them. If you happen to be an engineer having worked for a Manager, who likes you to go to him for every small decision making (for whatever qualitative reason), then you are used to it and tend make a habit of it and would probably believe that as a right way, more so when your manager has been a capable person. It has nothing to do with their own lack of decision making abilities. If you happen to be an engineer working for a Manager who expects you to handle your decision making skills yourself, you are bound to be working that way. The problem happens, when your manager gets switched on totally different contrast. You get caught off guard! Again, it also depends upon your ability to adjust and learn the new ways of working faster! Essentially, you will get really good engineers in both categories, one that needs to directed and one that doesn't. It's hard to make a judgement of their capabilities, purely based on their working mindsets.

[turbof1]

It's amazing that some engineers require constant direction. We have a few at work. Others, you can give simple requirements and unleash.

It depends upon the leadership style one has and what culture they have built around them. If you happen to be an engineer having worked for a Manager, who likes you to go to him for every small decision making (for whatever qualitative reason), then you are used to it and tend make a habit of it and would probably believe that as a right way, more so when your manager has been a capable person. It has nothing to do with their own lack of decision making abilities. If you happen to be an engineer working for a Manager who expects you to handle your decision making skills yourself, you are bound to be working that way. The problem happens, when your manager gets switched on totally different contrast. You get caught off guard! Again, it also depends upon your ability to adjust and learn the new ways of working faster! Essentially, you will get really good engineers in both categories, one that needs to directed and one that doesn't. It's hard to make a judgement of their capabilities, purely based on their working mindsets.

It depends on your character. If you are creative and want to express it, but can't due your manager, then a lot of people in that situation will feel unhappy and completely frustrated in that situation. Such things do build up over the years. Managers do need to give the feeling to their subjects that the ideas brought forward are atleast seriously evaluated and appreciated. Else you will choke the motivation out of the employee.

[Mr.G]

It's amazing that some engineers require constant direction. We have a few at work. Others, you can give simple requirements and unleash.

It depends upon the leadership style one has and what culture they have built around them. If you happen to be an engineer having worked for a Manager, who likes you to go to him for every small decision making (for whatever qualitative reason), then you are used to it and tend make a habit of it and would probably believe that as a right way, more so when your manager has been a capable person. It has nothing to do with their own lack of decision making abilities. If you happen to be an engineer working for a Manager who expects you to handle your decision making skills yourself, you are bound to be working that way. The problem happens, when your manager gets switched on totally different contrast. You get caught off guard! Again, it also depends upon your ability to adjust and learn the new ways of working faster! Essentially, you will get really good engineers in both categories, one that needs to directed and one that doesn't. It's hard to make a judgement of their capabilities, purely based on their working mindsets.

It depends on your character. If you are creative and want to express it, but can't due your manager, then a lot of people in that situation will feel unhappy and completely frustrated in that situation. Such things do build up over the years. Managers do need to give the feeling to their subjects that the ideas brought forward are atleast seriously evaluated and appreciated. Else you will choke the motivation out of the employee.

Or motivate him to replace the manager by him self

[krisfx]

It's amazing that some engineers require constant direction. We have a few at work. Others, you can give simple requirements and unleash.

No shame in that, some good people that I know need constant direction and some even need some boundaries, they work better than if they were given a clean sheet with (almost) no limitations. It's studied in psychology, it doesn't affect just people's work life (HR department should support managers/supervisors of necessary)

In most engineering environments, you need both