Since when does F1 have to be relevant to modern transport?

[Jersey Tom]

Modern road transport that is. Seems to be one of the things Max is throwing around these days. Since when does a top-performance racing car necessarily have to be a breeding ground for minivan ideas? I call BS on this concept. I know that there have been MANY occasions where consumer technology (either in the auto industry or otherwise) has outpaced that of motorsport.

The skill in F1 is taking those other contraptions and INNOVATING by applying them to a race environment. Not necessarily inventing new things...

[ISLAMATRON]

Since the main contributers to F1 are motor car companies. And also since the world is in an energy and an environmental crises. Not to mention the Financial crisis that is about to hit all the auto manufacturers pretty hard.

It is not just Max who is calling for road relevence, it is mainly the auto manufacturers who are invovled in F1 that want road relevance. How would the grid look if Mercedes, BMW, Honda, Toyota & Renault left? Would you like to see every race look like the 2005 USGP?

Why is it so hard to comprehend?

It is completely assinine to use so much money for sport, play & make believe.... why not use it to help better the world in some way? And at the same time make our road cars better.

[woohoo]

Since the main contributers to F1 are motor car companies. And also since the world is in an energy and an environmental crises. Not to mention the Financial crisis that is about to hit all the auto manufacturers pretty hard.

It is not just Max who is calling for road relevence, it is mainly the auto manufacturers who are invovled in F1 that want road relevance. How would the grid look if Mercedes, BMW, Honda, Toyota & Renault left? Would you like to see every race look like the 2005 USGP?

Why is it so hard to comprehend?

It is completely assinine to use so much money for sport, play & make believe.... why not use it to help better the world in some way? And at the same time make our road cars better.

Geez, relax, the guy asked a question.

Anyway, its because Bernie E and Mad Max are worried that F1 has a bad image, and that if they improve the image, more people would buy F1 merchandise.
Aparently they dont like the idea of "Sport" existing simply for the sake of "sport".

[ISLAMATRON]

Since the main contributers to F1 are motor car companies. And also since the world is in an energy and an environmental crises. Not to mention the Financial crisis that is about to hit all the auto manufacturers pretty hard.

It is not just Max who is calling for road relevence, it is mainly the auto manufacturers who are invovled in F1 that want road relevance. How would the grid look if Mercedes, BMW, Honda, Toyota & Renault left? Would you like to see every race look like the 2005 USGP?

Why is it so hard to comprehend?

It is completely assinine to use so much money for sport, play & make believe.... why not use it to help better the world in some way? And at the same time make our road cars better.

Geez, relax, the guy asked a question.

Anyway, its because Bernie E and Mad Max are worried that F1 has a bad image, and that if they improve the image, more people would buy F1 merchandise.
Aparently they dont like the idea of "Sport" existing simply for the sake of "sport".

It has nothing to do with Image, If they were so worried about F1's image they whould have just swept the whole Spy gate controversy under the rug last year, instead of blowing it up to enoormous proportions that overshadowed the season last year.

The manufacturers want road relevance and without them F1 is nothing, MAx & Bernie are finally starting to realize that.

If F1 had such a bad image than 20 countries wouldnt be willng to pay so much to host a new F1 race. Who is saying that F1 has an image problem? I've never actually read that anywhere... got something for me to read?

[Rob W]

I think the marketing aspect of having an F1 team far outweighs the realistic expectation that technologies will come from it which aid the consumer car part of the business nowdays.

First and foremost performing well is the aim - so a brand can reap the marketing benefits which come from it... cars still seem to be associated mentally with high-speed performance even thought that's largely irrelevant to the bulk of consumer vehicles.

It think it'll come back in favour of relevance sometime soon with eyes being on the implementation of KERS-type initiatives etc.

R

[pedaltometal]

Since technology developed in F1 began being used in road cars, about... 1920?

[Gary]

I am somewhat surprised that no one here appears to have nailed what I perceive to be the real reason for Mosley's concern, which seems, in the main, to be resonating with the teams.

And that is that if Formula One, in a world which is increasingly realising it is in an environmental crisis, is perceived as being profligate and uncaring of environmental issues, then it will be making itself highly, perhaps fatally vulnerable to assorted greenies, legislators and politicians who might spot an opportunity to enhance their credentials by challenging the very validity of motor racing as an activity.

Arguments such as 'more fuel is used up by football fans travelling to see their sport', the 'one 747 crossing the Atlantic uses more fuel than a whole season of F1' argument and on and on... will be insufficient to resist the antis once they get their teeth into the subject.

No, by drawing a very relevant link - ie KERS, but other proposed changes too - with racing and road technology, F1 will be providing itself with a very powerful tool to defend its legitimacy and relevance.

I have no idea how much the F1 'players' really care about the environment but I'd bet my boots they care deeply about doing what they have to do to ensure that their chosen career remains legal!

[flynfrog]

Since the main contributers to F1 are motor car companies. And also since the world is in an energy and an environmental crises. Not to mention the Financial crisis that is about to hit all the auto manufacturers pretty hard.

It is not just Max who is calling for road relevence, it is mainly the auto manufacturers who are invovled in F1 that want road relevance. How would the grid look if Mercedes, BMW, Honda, Toyota & Renault left? Would you like to see every race look like the 2005 USGP?

Why is it so hard to comprehend?

It is completely assinine to use so much money for sport, play & make believe.... why not use it to help better the world in some way? And at the same time make our road cars better.

the energy crisis and the environmental crisis is largely manufactured by the greenies to push an agenda. If they wanted road relevance why not allow TC ABS AWD ect. If the manufactures left you would have Penske, Williams, Aguri, Force India, Ferrari, Andretti Green, Gibbs,Red bull, ect. Lots of teams would love to come in but trying to compete with factory budgets is next to impossible.


Im with Tom road relevance has no place in racing.

[ISLAMATRON]

the energy crisis and the environmental crisis is largely manufactured by the greenies to push an agenda. If they wanted road relevance why not allow TC ABS AWD ect. If the manufactures left you would have Penske, Williams, Aguri, Force India, Ferrari, Andretti Green, Gibbs,Red bull, ect. Lots of teams would love to come in but trying to compete with factory budgets is next to impossible.

Im with Tom road relevance has no place in racing.

Yes the melting polar Ice caps were manufactured by the greenies and the tree huggers to push an agenda, so are the rising fuel prices. Exactly, I feel so much more at ease for my children now that you 2 environmental experts have chimed in. Thank you.

And if you didnt notice Aguri went out of business, they werent trying to compete with the factories,just trying to survive. They were actually mostly funded by one, and yet still went under. If all the manufacturers left then we would really have a spec series as Ferrrari would be the only engine maker.

[WhiteBlue]

Road relevance is a secondary objective after providing an exciting spectacle. The spectacle and entertainment aspect always comes first in order to keep the customers happy.

Two stake holders are interested in road relevance. The automotives as they want more bang for the billion+ bucks they pour into F1 and the FiA which wants to score browne points with their constituency and legislators.

I think road relevance is the genie that has escaped the bottle. Old fashioned racing fans will not get it to go back into it again.

[RH1300S]

F1 does not need to be relevant to modern transport [-X

Do football boots improve shoes?

I read your post Gary - it's a good one, and to a point I think you are right. But, how does the implementation of KERS make any sense when just starting up the McLaren wind tunnel makes the lights in Woking go dim? There is an argument that KERS development will speed up immensely with it's use in F1 - which might pay huge dividends globally (but we are only talking about energy consumption here - not other technologies).

Historically, there have been technologies which have transferred to road cars; but these transferred by accident not design - meaning that they weren't put on a race car to improve road cars, they went onto/into the race car to make it faster then someone figured out it might benefit road cars. This still may happen, but is less likely.

I see F1 as a place where manufacturers can (if these choose to ) showcase their engineering excellence (if not specific technologies) - but I don't need to see the same parts on a road car to make a connection between the quality of engineering or thinking in both.

At the end of the day F1 is a sport, where people strive to achieve the goal of winning races and championships by simply being better in every area than their opponents. I'm sure almost anyone that watches F1 understands that and they don't expect to see huge wings or 19000rpm engines or seamless gearboxes on their cars.

[WhiteBlue]

.... Do football boots improve shoes?

I see F1 as a place where manufacturers can (if these choose to ) showcase their engineering excellence (if not specific technologies) - but I don't need to see the same parts on a road car to make a connection between the quality of engineering or thinking in both.

At the end of the day F1 is a sport, where people strive to achieve the goal of winning races and championships by simply being better in every area than their opponents. I'm sure almost anyone that watches F1 understands that and they don't expect to see huge wings or 19000rpm engines or seamless gearboxes on their cars.

well sport shoe development seriously revolutionized shoe manufacturing technology in the last 20 years. people get much more functional shoes for a fraction of the price you use to pay.

I agree that F1 is a sport, where people strive to win by being better than their opponents in those aereas that are open to development. The trick obviously is to define such aereas with a view to profits of the society as a whole.

[axle]

I like the tie up between motor-racing and improvements to road cars. It's a bit like warfare, lots of modern scientific breakthroughs come from warfare, sport is one notch down from that IMO.

[Ciro Pabón]

Why relevant, you ask.

Short answer: "No, it doesn't have to be relevant. It also can have no future".

Every time I hear this kind of argument I remember the steam locomotive races, popular at the early XIXth century. They don't race anymore...

Either racing moves or is left behind. Actually, I can imagine that in a couple of decades we'll see the first rocket races and that, by the end of the XXIth century, fossil fuels cars will be only in museums, along steam propulsed vehicles.

Long answer:

Three reasons I can think of:

1. The Code of Ethics, First Canon: "Engineers shall hold paramount the safety, health and welfare of the public and shall strive to comply with the principles of sustainable development in the performance of their professional duties."

Of course, I can cite Barbossa in The Pirates of the Caribbean: "... the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules."

"Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Miss Turner."

2. The Policy Center:

"Hereby decides:
23. To continue its longstanding support for the global effort to reduce toxic emissions, to combat dangerous climate, change to promote automotive fuel economy and responsible motoring"

The most important voice that I think you should read (sigh) is this:

3. The Motorsport Industry Association:

"At the outset, there was some doubt that the original mission statement of finding “A new motor racing formula that would promote the use of improved automotive environmental technologies, in a way that is as exciting and no less fast than other formulae, using limitations placed on energy.” was a realistic objective, but the working group of industry professionals and academics quickly established that motorsport did have a contribution to make."

Finally, there is a thread you might like to check here: What should Formula One do to go green? Express your thought

So, Gary must be realizing that the greenies already won. Too late, Gary.

[Jersey Tom]

I still maintain that road technology goes to motorsport, more than motorsport technology goes to road. I've seen it first hand.