How to get into motorsport as an engineer

[mep]

I will finish my mechanical engineering studies at October and
I am a member of the formula student team at college.
So now I wonder how I could manage to get a workplace in motorsports.
There are several support programmes and series for drivers but I have never heard of anything like this for an engineer.
Furthermore there are little engineering improvements possible in the lower series because most of the technical things are fixed by the regulations.
Does anybody know a good way to find a job in motorsports?

[Scuderia_Russ]

I take it you don't mean as a race engineer?

[Jersey Tom]

Furthermore there are little engineering improvements possible in the lower series because most of the technical things are fixed by the regulations.
Does anybody know a good way to find a job in motorsports?

I disagree on that first point. Depends what you want to do though. Do you mean as a DESIGN engineer or what?

Definitely helps knowing someone. If not, best ways to get involved in general are if you have significant aerodynamics background (Masters, PhD) and find an opening as a wind tunnel engineer or CFD guy.

Otherwise, you can probably find some openings in lower level series (F3 for example) as a DAQ engineer.

For design, you could apply at a manufacturer like Lola or Dallara.

Go to some races on a Thursday, or take a tour of some places. Ask their engineers how they got on board.

Be willing to work for cheap.

[mep]

mep wrote:
Furthermore there are little engineering improvements possible in the lower series because most of the technical things are fixed by the regulations.
Does anybody know a good way to find a job in motorsports?

I disagree on that first point. Depends what you want to do though. Do you mean as a DESIGN engineer or what?

Yes I thing I was wrong at that point.
What I wanted to say is that for example with a uniform chassis like in F3 there might be just few jobs for a classical mechanical engineer (doing designs).
Anyways most of them might be working as a race engineer and I would even prefer such a job.
But of course I don't have any experiences as a race engineer so is this in lower formulas not so important or how could I get them?
I mean everybody has to start somewhere.

Definitely helps knowing someone. If not, best ways to get involved in general are if you have significant aerodynamics background (Masters, PhD) and find an opening as a wind tunnel engineer or CFD guy.

Otherwise, you can probably find some openings in lower level series (F3 for example) as a DAQ engineer.

Sorry what is PhD and DAQ standing for?
Do you think it is important to have a master degree or is a bachelor enough?
I also consider to continue studies and make a master.

[Jersey Tom]

PhD, Doctor of Philosophy. Level above M.Sc.

DAQ = Data acquisition.

There are certainly ways of getting your foot in the door with only a B.Sc. Working your way up from a lower level of motorsport is probably the way to go. If you enter as a data acquisition guy, and having experience with wiring sensors looms, calibration, etc, you could probably get on board. From there you might be able to work up to a junior race engineer working on setups and strategy, etc.

Or, if you want to try to jump into a higher level you could do more work toward a specialized degree.

[Tom]

G'day y'all,

I'm in a similar situation trying to find a work placement, where do you een begin, esspecially at the moment when employees are being laid off in every direction.

Firstly if you have any contacts in the industry, use them. Keep them sweet but utalise them for all they're worth, they might know someone who knows someone who is looking for you.

Second, play to your strengths, I'm not great at writing but I can talk ok, I find that if you turn up on a teams doorstep in person and talk to someone in person it shows your willing to go an extra mile. Try phoning a team, you'll probably only get to talk to a receoptionist but if you can sweet talk him/her they might put you through to the right person. I remember someone on the forum a while ago saying that every time they have an interviewee turn up they'll check with the receptionist to see how the candidate treated them, no point employing someone who only makes an effort to be friendly to the boss, you've gotta have the whole team on your side.

Finally be prepared to work for peanuts, it won't make you a monkey. Volenteer if you must, but make sure you work damn hard, it will impress people no end and with a bit of luck they'll remember you when they're offering paid jobs.

Good Luck!

[SpookTheHamster]

It's a lot easier if you've had a work placement at a team/company, because they will normally go for the students they've had before as they know what to expect.

Really though you should apply everywhere. There is a lot more involved in every aspect of motorsport than you expect (though I'm only talking from F1 experience). Being a trained Mechanical Engineer is good as it gives you a huge amount of knowledge to go anywhere.

The mechanical design side of an F1 team will be broken up into departments, such as: Aero, Suspension, Vehicle Dynamics, Systems, Controls, Hyds, Electronics and more. Each of those will have several designers. Most of those design departments will have engineering counterparts. Then there are opportunities in the running of the car, support engineers, race engineers, mechanics, and even more. In a large team there can be 600 people so there's no shortage of space.

Teams in other motorsport will have fewer staff but there is more to engineering than designing new parts. There's reliability, race engineering, support engineering and again more.

Then there's all the supplier companies. Probably most of the parts on a car are bought in from specialist companies as it's easier and produces a better result than trying to do everything yourself. Companies will supply parts for every area of the car: engine parts/manufacturers, electronic parts, hydraulic parts, materials.

Don't ignore electronics, you might not know anything about it (neither do I) but they need mechanical engineers to deal with the packaging and installation of such parts.

The most important thing is to apply to anyone and everyone. I don't know if you have an equivalent of the Autosport show but go there and talk to everyone you can. Also pick up the directory of motorsport companies and contact each and every one (I must have applied to over 100 companies for my placement).

I would also add that a PhD is probably a complete waste of time at this stage. You've already gone this far and got a degree and (hopefully) shown that you can work successfully in your FSAE team so you should look OK. A PhD would show that you place too much emphasis on academia and would only make coming to the real world more of a shock, which might lead to a lot of companies passing you over.

[mep]

I'm in a similar situation trying to find a work placement, where do you een begin, esspecially at the moment when employees are being laid off in every direction.

Firstly if you have any contacts in the industry, use them. Keep them sweet but utalise them for all they're worth, they might know someone who knows someone who is looking for you.

I think it is even in the current situation possible to find some job.
There are a few companies searching and I have some kind of contact to them.
The problem is that these jobs have nothing in common with motorsports so I am worried it will be difficult to change later.
Now I have at least some formula student experiences (and I made a quite nice design there). In a few years this might be worth nothing. On the other side do I have more engineering experiences in a few years.

I would also add that a PhD is probably a complete waste of time at this stage. You've already gone this far and got a degree and (hopefully) shown that you can work successfully in your FSAE team so you should look OK. A PhD would show that you place too much emphasis on academia and would only make coming to the real world more of a shock, which might lead to a lot of companies passing you over.

Thanks. I guess the same goes for Master Degree.
That helps because we are the first age group now in Germany with the Bachelor/Master Degree so there is little experience about it.
Especially knowing how important a Master is.
Furthermore there are currently only very few universities offering a Master.
This will change dramatically with the next few years.

The most important thing is to apply to anyone and everyone. I don't know if you have an equivalent of the Autosport show but go there and talk to everyone you can. Also pick up the directory of motorsport companies and contact each and every one (I must have applied to over 100 companies for my placement).
Sound like you already managed to get one of the rare F1 jobs or at least a placement. I always wondered whether there is a special period during the year when it is best to apply for F 1.

[RacingManiac]

I think these days its going to be quite difficult to get that ideal job you want. Even in traditionally high demend program like Motorsport Engineering at Cranfield they have problem with post school placement. One of my friend who is finishing his program is having this exact issue. Problem being I guess with motorsport aside from the really big outfit(who is likely downsizing right now), most are being run by people with spare cash flow, which these days is hard to find. According to my friend most of the current class cannot line up a position, whereas traditionally they would've been placed since the school has close tie to the heart of the UK motorsport industry. He is considering moving back to Canada for jobs, he is well qualified and also has multiple years of FSAE experience on top of developing his own vehicle model in MATLAB, and experience working for Doug Miliken as well as Multimatic doing simulation work.

[SpookTheHamster]

I think it is even in the current situation possible to find some job.
There are a few companies searching and I have some kind of contact to them.
The problem is that these jobs have nothing in common with motorsports so I am worried it will be difficult to change later.
Now I have at least some formula student experiences (and I made a quite nice design there). In a few years this might be worth nothing. On the other side do I have more engineering experiences in a few years.

The great thing about Engineering is that you can work in almost any field at almost any company and still move to wherever you like. If you went to a good university you will have a large base of knowledge that can be applied almost anywhere.

Thanks. I guess the same goes for Master Degree.
That helps because we are the first age group now in Germany with the Bachelor/Master Degree so there is little experience about it.
Especially knowing how important a Master is.
Furthermore there are currently only very few universities offering a Master.
This will change dramatically with the next few years.

The most important thing is to apply to anyone and everyone. I don't know if you have an equivalent of the Autosport show but go there and talk to everyone you can. Also pick up the directory of motorsport companies and contact each and every one (I must have applied to over 100 companies for my placement).
Sound like you already managed to get one of the rare F1 jobs or at least a placement. I always wondered whether there is a special period during the year when it is best to apply for F 1.

A Masters degree is VERY useful. A Bachelors is entry level in motorsport, so a Masters can set you apart from everyone else, or set you up with more possibility for promotion in future.

I did manage to get one of the F1 placements, the best time to apply is all the time. I applied for mine quite late (I think it was April), had my interview in June and started in September. Obviously the placements follow the pattern of an academic year, real jobs will be going up all the time. You've probably missed the boat if you were hoping for a placement in the 2009/2010 year, but contact your nearest teams anyway.

I think these days its going to be quite difficult to get that ideal job you want. Even in traditionally high demend program like Motorsport Engineering at Cranfield they have problem with post school placement. One of my friend who is finishing his program is having this exact issue. Problem being I guess with motorsport aside from the really big outfit(who is likely downsizing right now), most are being run by people with spare cash flow, which these days is hard to find. According to my friend most of the current class cannot line up a position, whereas traditionally they would've been placed since the school has close tie to the heart of the UK motorsport industry. He is considering moving back to Canada for jobs, he is well qualified and also has multiple years of FSAE experience on top of developing his own vehicle model in MATLAB, and experience working for Doug Miliken as well as Multimatic doing simulation work.

His problem may be the course he chose. Motorsport Engineering courses have a bit of a negative image among many people in the industry because they quite often gloss over a lot of the academic side of engineering and instead concentrate too much on practical skill. There are very few (maybe only one) Motorsport course that is accredited by the IMechE - and that's at Brunel (my uni) where the course shares all but one module with the standard Mech Eng course and is almost entirely academic.

[Tom]

SpookeTheHamster wrote:

His problem may be the course he chose. Motorsport Engineering courses have a bit of a negative image among many people in the industry because they quite often gloss over a lot of the academic side of engineering and instead concentrate too much on practical skill. There are very few (maybe only one) Motorsport course that is accredited by the IMechE - and that's at Brunel (my uni) where the course shares all but one module with the standard Mech Eng course and is almost entirely academic.

I completely disagree, I'm doing Motorsport Technology at Oxford Brookes (supposed to be a little more hands on than engineering) and throughout our entire course (3 years) we get 24 hours of practical work, and its such incredably basic stuff too. I don't know how outside companys view it but I don't think we get nearly enough prac, to the extent my mate on the course couldn't change his starter motor last week without calling out a mechanic. Maybe this is a rare thing but to be a good engineer both aspects must be fully understood and I think thats where alot of people fall.

[SpookTheHamster]

I completely disagree, I'm doing Motorsport Technology at Oxford Brookes (supposed to be a little more hands on than engineering) and throughout our entire course (3 years) we get 24 hours of practical work, and its such incredably basic stuff too. I don't know how outside companys view it but I don't think we get nearly enough prac, to the extent my mate on the course couldn't change his starter motor last week without calling out a mechanic. Maybe this is a rare thing but to be a good engineer both aspects must be fully understood and I think thats where alot of people fall.

Whether or not your uni provides enough practical training isn't the main point. The main problem is how most companies view 'Motorsport' courses as opposed to Mech Eng courses, and 'Technology' compared to 'Engineering'. A lot of Engineers are very set in their ways when they've experienced or been told something, to the extent that it's apparently very hard to get a placement at Willies if you're on a Motorsport course, as they have had a bad student in the past from one of those courses.

[RacingManiac]

The Cranfield course is a M.Sc program where you end up with a Master Degree for Motorsport in the end. He has already completed his engineering degree in U of Toronto(mechanical engineering 4 years, plus one year of professional experience). I have another friend who went through the Cranfield program and is now working in FIA GT3 series as a race engineer. She had much better luck because she gone through that a year earlier, before the economic meltdown....

[PlatinumZealot]

Are those occupations lifetime occupations?

[RacingManiac]

Depends on what you do I guess....race engineers and say a designer works differently...they do share the highstress nature due to the fact that everything in racing may turnaround rather quickly. Though a race engineer also has a ton of travelling(which believe me, gets tired really quickly). I do think it takes a special kind of person to last a lifetime in racing....