McLaren beryllium pistons

[vinuneuro]

Who supplied them, was it Mahle?

[Tommy Cookers]

presumably you mean Aluminiim/Beryllium alloy ?
(about 30% Be?)

(or some MMC ??)


Porsche used Beryllium brake discs at Le Mans, but I don't think a piston would be made from the stuff

[tok-tokkie]

I thought beryllium was specifically banned on cost grounds. It was used quite extensively (engine blocks?) several years ago so FIA stepped in to ban it because of the cost. I don't know if they limited the ban to certain components.

[xpensive]

Wiki is your friend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium

Beryllium has a modulus of almost 300 GPa (1.5 times steel) and a density of 1885 kg/m^3 (70% of Alu), while it's also xtremely stable for thermal thermal loads.

The way I can recall, it was used for the Mercedes engine-block, but perhaps as an Alu-alloy or was it pure?

[hammarby88]

Aluminium/Beryllium alloy pistons were produced and used by Ilmor(mercedes engines) who supplied the engines for mclaren. Banned after that season after protests from Ferrari. Beryllium is perfect for the job, but is expensive and the dust is very unhealthy to inhale.

[xpensive]

I believe this is the material used, "AlBeMet", from Brush Wellman Beryllium Products.

http://materion.com/Businesses/BrushBer ... sites.aspx

[Steven]

Here's another ooooold thread about beryllium in F1
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=509

[Richard]

... and here's one about piston manufacturers

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8095

[aussiegman]

Beryllium is also a restricted metal in some countries due to its toxicity. I always have issues with importing beryllium copper (BeCu) valve seats and guides aswell as all sorts of precautions machining them even with such low beryllium content.

[Holm86]

Aluminium/Beryllium alloy pistons were produced and used by Ilmor(mercedes engines) who supplied the engines for mclaren. Banned after that season after protests from Ferrari. Beryllium is perfect for the job, but is expensive and the dust is very unhealthy to inhale.

This is correct. And yes it is very expensive.

Illmor also had problems with the pistons. When a piston went it didnt just burn a hole through but totally disintegrated. This made it hard to control what was the cause of the failure.

[xpensive]

When comparing different metals for stiffness-dependent applications such as a piston,
taking Young's modulus over Density is usually a good stiffness-to-mass index;

Steel: 2.1 E11 / 7800 = 26.9 E6

Aluminium: 0.7 E11 / 2700 = 25.9 E6

Titanium: 1.1 E11 / 4500 = 24.4 E6

Look at that, almost the same index, you didn't xpect that now, did you fellow members?

But look at this;

Beryllium: 2.9 E11 / 1850 = 157 E6 !!!

[marcush.]

I paid a visit to ARP long time ago and as we had some investigation going on about bolt thread length influence on failure /elongation under load i spent half a day in their test room with the zwick machine .
I well remember the trays with bolts sitting on the table with Illmor lettering on them .In a silent moment i could not resist and grabbed one of those bolts with considerable size....the weight was unbelievable..the technicians just rolled their eyes when I asked what material it was ...

[xpensive]

If I had been you marcush, I would have tried the good old "Look, a bird!" trick and slipped it into my pocket!

[marcush.]

If I had been you marcush, I would have tried the good old "Look, a bird!" trick and slipped it into my pocket!

Believe me ..exactly that was crossing my mind back then and I still don´t know how I could resist back then..

btw -the thread issue we investigated had surprising results also for ARP.

[riff_raff]

Who supplied them, was it Mahle?

Don't know who may have supplied Merc, but I believe Cosworth was using lots of Al-Be materials in their engines while it was legal. The pistons were likely 100% machined from AlBeMet 162 alloy which is around 62% Be and 38% Al. Many engine suppliers also used the similar BerAlCast alloy for blocks and heads.

Al-Be alloys are definitely magic stuff. The alloy has the density of magnesium, the stiffness of steel, and better thermal conductivity than aluminum. However the material does have some drawbacks. The base material is made from sintering powder, so the size of raw material stock is somewhat limited. The metal alloy is also highly reactive in a molten state, so casting the material must be done in a vacuum. Most importantly, the raw material costs over $300/lb. That's about 8 or 9 times the cost of titanium alloys, and about 80 times the cost of high quality aluminum alloys.

Regarding the common perception that machining alloys containing beryllium is dangerous due to beryllium toxicity, this is mostly an exaggeration. Beryllium only presents a serious toxic hazard to individuals that inhale beryllium dust (berylliosis), and this is not likely to occur with the metal chips produced during machining. However, as is typical in our modern, nanny-state society, government regulators have overreacted and prohibited most industrial uses of beryllium.