Anti-Ackermann Geometry and F1

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RacingManiac
RacingManiac
9
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 02:29

Anti-Ackermann Geometry and F1

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I don't know how feasible is this, but according to Claude Roulle, some F1 teams because of their tire characteristics, are using anti-ackermann steering geometry. As you know, ackermann is basically the way of placing your out board steering pickup in relation to the steer axis to get the effect of allowing inside wheel to turn more than the out side. intuitively it makes sense but anti-ackermann seems to be very tire data dependent....

Guest
Guest
0

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they all use it, its used in nearly all the regular roadcars as well, it is really nothing special

RacingManiac
RacingManiac
9
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 02:29

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ackermann all cars uses it, but anit-ackermann? As in the OUTSIDE wheel turns more than inside....

Mclaren11
Mclaren11
0
Joined: 13 May 2003, 22:54
Location: Columbus, Indiana, USA

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it seems to me that this would have a negative effect on the car. How exactally would this help?

RacingManiac
RacingManiac
9
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 02:29

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It is supposed to be related to your tire data, as I heard from Claude Roulle, if you have your tire data that shows that as normal load increases, the maximum cornering force occurs at an increasing slip angle(as in at higher load, more slip angle is needed to generate max cornering load), than you should be running anti-ackermann. If the opposite is happening, as normal load increases, your tire's max slip angle value for max cornering force is dropping off, then normal ackermann should be used. This is largely tire dependent and you'd have to know your tire data to make the concious choice. I'd assume F1 teams would know. their tire curve...

So to that effect, when you go into a corner, because of the weight tranfer the outside front would be loaded up more, and if your tire data shows the aforementioned trend, you would need it at higher slip angle to generate its maximum grip, while the inside wheel, because its being partially unloaded, its maximum grip needs to be at a lower slip angle, so it needs to be steered less. Thus you need anti-ackermann....

I have seen pictures of some champ car's steering knuckle layout that suggests that they are utilizing anti-ackermann, but don't know about F1....

Guest
Guest
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can you post the pics, it would be interesting to see. also it came to my mind that the outer wheel turning more would mean it generates more heat as it kindof understeers then compared to the inner wheel, which might depending on the circumstances help the tyre to its optimum temperature

RacingManiac
RacingManiac
9
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 02:29

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackermann_ ... g_geometry

The above is what ackermann is. In most car it is utilized by placing the steering pivot further inward when your steering point is trailing the steer axis, and further outward when your steering point is leading the steer axis. An anti-ackermann car would have the opposite kind of setup.

http://speed.supercars.net/pitlane/pics/622509d.jpg

The picture was taken of an older McLaren F1 car from the 80s(at Donington museum), dont exactly know which one. On your left is the front of the car. With the car being top-steer and front steer, with the steering point leading the axis. You can see the top ball joint at the tip of the a-arm, and the steering pickup located closed towards us(the viewer) compared to the top balljoint where the steering axis lies...

Reca
Reca
93
Joined: 21 Dec 2003, 18:22
Location: Monza, Italy

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RacingManiac wrote: The picture was taken of an older McLaren F1 car from the 80s(at Donington museum), dont exactly know which one
I wouldn’t put money on it, but it should be an Mp4/4, 1988.