Inspiration From Nature???

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ESPImperium
ESPImperium
64
Joined: 06 Apr 2008, 00:08
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Inspiration From Nature???

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I was watching the BBC Big Cat Diary programme last night and when watching the Lepord Shakira (???) in the programme they werte talking about her tail being used for ballance and aero dynamics.

What i was thinking is could a F1 car have a "Active" rear wing that turned into the corner???

Could this be done??? and what ouuld it do the cars aero package/lap times???

DaveKillens
DaveKillens
34
Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

Re: Inspiration From Nature???

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With the technology in the aerospace industry, it is possible to construct a moveable wing. Imagine the front and rear wings angling while in a corner. This could place an additional force vector in the horizontal direction. I'm glossing over the interactions between the wings and bodywork, but that's another challenge for the aero guys. Or how about just a huge moveable wing, placed midship and vertically. If you could generate a force of, let's just pick a number.. 1500 kilos, then when oriented in the correct manner, could by itself, generate approx 2 g's.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

Carlos
Carlos
11
Joined: 02 Sep 2006, 19:43
Location: Canada

Re: Inspiration From Nature???

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Current research is directed to-wards materials that can alter shape when an electrical charge is applied and military aero research facilities are investigating wings that will have infinitely alterable profiles, just like a birds wing reacts to flight, why we may even be able to develop a computer as sophisticated as a bird brain to control it. I had posted a few months ago about a University's research into electrical actuated materials, including a posted link. it's in our vast F1T Forum database - somewhere.

zac510
zac510
22
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 12:58

Re: Inspiration From Nature???

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Isn't the tail a bit like a mass damper? ;)
No good turn goes unpunished.

DaveKillens
DaveKillens
34
Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

Re: Inspiration From Nature???

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zac510 wrote:Isn't the tail a bit like a mass damper? ;)
Thatt depends on the color of the tail.......... :wink:
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

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Ciro Pabón
106
Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Re: Inspiration From Nature???

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Well, first, I love the bit about "Lepard Shakira tail" and the "mass damper". Shakira, the colombian singer, won a "best buttocks" contest when she was starting her singing career, and in spanish the word for "tail" is used as an euphemism for "buttocks"... :)

Shakira at 17, right after she won the contest of the best "tail" in Colombia. How large is this aerodynamic deflection?
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Second, aerodynamic surfaces for turning or braking are strictly forbidden, of course. You would end with an aircraft race, instead of a car race. If F1 already has problems with downforce, imagine if FIA allows to use tails, ailerons, flaps and elevators. Whoever likes this way of "driving" should go into air races.

Miserably small picture of Fangio braking with a roof-top spoiler (barely visible, behind the driver of the car on the right). They were forbidden because of fear they would break
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Yes, I know, front wings are going to have movable surfaces in 2009, but this only shows how desperate is the Overtake Working Group. They work only in the "vertical direction"... unless Ferrari or McLaren finds a way to exploit them to take the curves (why that wouldn't surprise me?).

Third, I like the way you think. We've had several threads on wings inspired by animals. Here you have some pictures, just in case:

A flying aerodinamic teacher? Do you remember the Spitfire plane elliptical wing? I wonder if this wing is developed for flying in formation
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This is the Spitfire wing
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"Lift-enhanced" wing, used by birds that fly alone. Compare with the previous wing developed (I asume) for formation flying
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Fishes in formation. Is this some kind of CDG wing? Notice it's thinner at the center...
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Bald Eagle in flight with primaries spread to decrease drag and improve lift, another "solitary" bird
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Staged wing at Renault and at your garden
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Differential honeycombing (you vary the size of cells along the structure) of dragonfly wing. I concede it's not easy to achieve with current carbon fiber and aluminium honeycomb, but...
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Shark skin. Why in heaven it's so similar to a bunch of F1 car noses put together? Yes, I know it's used in the swimsuits that helped to break all World Records, but the hydrodinamic regime is different. Do NOT pay attention to the captions, I wrote them
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WhaleCorps turbine blade, inspired by bumps on whale fins
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Master Manchild concept for blown wings (the rear wing is hollow, the air exits from the trailing edge). Yes, it's totally OOT, but I think it's one of the coolest ideas thrown around in this forum
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Carlos mentions "our" ideas for a ionized wing. There you go:

My concept
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What the thread finally brought (by Tomislavp4): the idea is to reduce front wheel drag...
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Finally (I'm bored of looking for old threads), here you have the ultimate bionic-aerodynamic concepts... :)
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"If you didn't care what happened to me,
And I didn't care for you
We would zig zag our way through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain
Wondering which of the buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wind."
-- Pink Floyd, Animals --
Ciro

Carlos
Carlos
11
Joined: 02 Sep 2006, 19:43
Location: Canada

Re: Inspiration From Nature???

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Shakira certainly deserves her renown for physicality, here's her video Hips Don't Lie - a treatise on movable surfaces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWixg8PoKPE&NR=1

OT - The March 707 had an eliptical front wing, but my choice was between finding a photo of the car and Shikira's video, and my choice is what I find most inspirational :D

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Ciro Pabón
106
Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Re: Inspiration From Nature???

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Carlos wrote:... a treatise on movable surfaces.
2:39 into the video: "... en Barranquilla se baila así..." (at Barranquilla people dances like this) :)
Ciro

Belatti
Belatti
33
Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Inspiration From Nature???

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Carlos wrote:Shakira certainly deserves her renown for physicality, here's her video Hips Don't Lie - a treatise on movable surfaces.
The guy to contact for this matter is a moron (and lucky :D ) ex-kicked-in-the-ass-president´s son.
Carlos wrote:OT - The March 707 had an eliptical front wing, but my choice was between finding a photo of the car and Shikira's video, and my choice is what I find most inspirational :D
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"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

Belatti
Belatti
33
Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Re: Inspiration From Nature???

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Oh! and I forgot!
WHAT AN EXCELLENT SONG, CD, BAND!
Ciro Pabón wrote: "If you didn't care what happened to me,
And I didn't care for you
We would zig zag our way through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain
Wondering which of the buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wind."
-- Pink Floyd, Animals --
:D 8)
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

Aerodynamicist#1
Aerodynamicist#1
0
Joined: 09 Oct 2008, 23:32
Location: UK

Re: Inspiration From Nature???

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Well rules say u aren't allowed movable aerodynamic surfaces in F1 but old F2 cars had rear wings with a 'flap' at the trailing edge of the aerofoil section, which the driver could adjust from in the car.

timbo
timbo
111
Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 10:14

Re: Inspiration From Nature???

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Elliptical wings were made to minimize drag by providing optimium distribution of lift over he wing. In this setup tip of the wing produces less vortices. However they are not optimal to achive high roll speeds, because they don't not allow to place ailerons close to the tip where they are most effective. Later elliptical wings were abandoned on Spitfires to compete with FW-190 that had excellent roll speed.