Can anyone identify this very unusual rear wing?

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new decade
new decade
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Joined: 28 Sep 2010, 00:50

Can anyone identify this very unusual rear wing?

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Hi all,

was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this mystery.

In this slightly odd vid about banned F1 technologies there is a very sudden shot of the rear wing on what i believe is a Williams FW19... Which appears to be solely composed of the lower element. I assume this was banned as soon as it appeared, but when did this occur, and where? I guess it was monza given the drag reduction benefit. Either way, I have never seen anything like this elsewhere.

Timestamp 2:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIDwRRliF7A

Apologies if this has already been uncovered... Couldnt find anything on google or forum search!

DaveKillens
DaveKillens
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Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

Re: Can anyone identify this very unusual rear wing?

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The video shows Jacques Villeneuve driving, and since the number 3 is on the side, it's the FW19 during 1997.

Here's another pic I dug up.
Image

Interestingly, this isn't the first time Williams has gone down this road, witness from 1988.
Image
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

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agungn51
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Re: Can anyone identify this very unusual rear wing?

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that was the rear wing used by Williams on Monza 1997 at practice session


Image


but very rare article about this
" Many inventors achieve great success, because they treat inventing like a serious busines - Inventing is often the easy part; the trick is to know what needs to be invented "

new decade
new decade
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Joined: 28 Sep 2010, 00:50

Re: Can anyone identify this very unusual rear wing?

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Hmmm interesting, thanks for those replies.

Is there more info on the effectiveness of that wing? If there is an article on it somewhere in the dark depths of the internet that would be much appreciated.

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flynfrog
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Re: Can anyone identify this very unusual rear wing?

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new decade wrote:Hmmm interesting, thanks for those replies.

Is there more info on the effectiveness of that wing? If there is an article on it somewhere in the dark depths of the internet that would be much appreciated.
If I remember right it didn't work I think one of the Mclearns had one too.

wrcsti
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Re: Can anyone identify this very unusual rear wing?

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FW17
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Re: Can anyone identify this very unusual rear wing?

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Why did they have to go to the salt flats to set a top speed record? they could have done a lot better in any of the proving grounds as the Mclaren F1 or Bugatti Veyron or even one of the speedways such as Michigan or Fontana?

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flynfrog
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Re: Can anyone identify this very unusual rear wing?

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I think they chose the salt for the added challenge and it provides lots of runoff miles of it. It wasn't so much about going 400 it was about doing it at the salt.

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747heavy
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Joined: 06 Jul 2010, 21:45

Re: Can anyone identify this very unusual rear wing?

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I agree with flynfrog.
OTOH I think you have to set it at Boneville (on the Salt) to make it an
"offical" land speed record, by meeting there specific rules.

Otherwise I agree, they would go most likely to Nardo (Italy).
Some production car records are set in Nardo, such as highest average speed during 24h etc.
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look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
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nacho
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Re: Can anyone identify this very unusual rear wing?

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Was the idea to make it work together with the diffuser, creating a low pressure behind and above the diffuser to accelerate the air flow underneth?

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flynfrog
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Re: Can anyone identify this very unusual rear wing?

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I think the main idea was to run the smallest wing possible for Monza to keep the drag down. These cars made a higher percentage of the DF through the under body than today wing dependent cars.

Richard
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Re: Can anyone identify this very unusual rear wing?

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You can attempt to set a land speed record anywhere you fancy. The current record was set in Black Rock Desert (Arizona), not in Bonneville (Utah). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed_record

The trouble is that you need enough space to speed up, hold the speed for a mile, then slow down & turn around for the return run. The current record holder needed a 13 mile track. http://www.thrustssc.com/Runs_Database/Run66.html

You also need a space that is flat, free from debris, and hard enough to support the vehicle. Dried salt lakes are ideal because they are flat having been lain by water, and water tends to be flat! The dried salt is hard, and there is no vegetation.

Conventional deserts can also be successful locations, more info here http://www.thrustssc.com/thrustssc/Loca ... tions.html

Of course Bonneville has history & tradition so they have lots of knowledge about conditions and how to create the track. I think that's why it attracts teams wanting PR.

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747heavy
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Re: Can anyone identify this very unusual rear wing?

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all the lower beam wings (and rear wings in general) work together with the diffusor, in helping to extract more air from it (the diffusor).

The Williams wing, is most likely an effort to reduce drag, by reducing the frontal area of the car as much as possible.
There is probably a passus in the rules, that you have to use a "sort of" rear wing, so it was there interpretation of one.

You could see this idea (reducing the frontal area, by placing the wing very low) in other series as well. For a while many sports car, used or tried to use such a configuration in Le Mans.
Image

And there where attempts at various times in F1 as well.
Image

most of the true ground effect cars of the late70´s and early 80`s had the rear wings mounted much lower, to help the extracting of air from the venturi tunnel(s) and to reduce frontal area drag at the same time.

It was very interesting to see (at least for me), that this year in Monza, there was a different philosopy towards the Df vs. drag compromise.
For many years the low drag at all costs route was predominant, this year most teams opted for a bit more downforce.

Back in ~2003/4 when F3000 was the main support category for F1, the Lola in lowest wing settings had still too much DF/drag for Monza. As you where not allowed (by the rules) to take wings off, or make modifications to there fixing points and AoA, one team come up with the idea to mount the beam wings "upside down" reducing dag and downforce. It lead to a considerable gain in straight line speed, but was banned later on, and a team which still used the solution during the race, got dsq for it.

@ Richard

thanks for the heads up and correction in regards to the land speed records - much appriciated !!!
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
- Colin Chapman

“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci

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mep
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Re: Can anyone identify this very unusual rear wing?

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How does a upside down mounted wing reduce drag?
I can see that it changes the downforce to lift but drag should stay the same?

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horse
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Re: Can anyone identify this very unusual rear wing?

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mep wrote:How does a upside down mounted wing reduce drag?
I think it redirects flow into the low pressure zone behind the car. So you still have the form (and induced) drag of the wing itself, but the form drag of the car will be greatly reduced. There are two major impacts, though, first of which is that the wing is lifting, second is that the diffuser needs this low pressure zone to operate efficiently. Thus, the car would have to take corners exceptionally carefully (there would be a significant amount of under-steer?).
Last edited by horse on 29 Sep 2010, 19:14, edited 2 times in total.
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