2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

F1-insider (German outlet who were getting fed information by Austrian/verstappen camp of red bull during the Horner saga and when Marko was being ousted at Saudi GP) report that Verstappen team will meet with Mercedes after Miami to see if a deal can be struck

https://f1-insider.com/formel-1-verstap ... gen-63046/

Says that Verstappen wants to bring engineers with him as well as Marko

Marko and corporate?! Nah.

Marko is cut from the same cloth as Lauda.

[PlatinumZealot]

If Mercedes were to credit Lewis for their resurgence in the same manner they did with Schumacher, it would undeniably recognize his impact. However, it seems unlikely given the stark contrast: Unlike Schumacher, Lewis has at times brought public embarrassment to the team and its machinery, with Toto involved.

Schumacher was embarrassed by Rosberg three years in a row. But that's quietly forgotten. Did Schumacher help to develop the title winning cars? No. No he did not.

I respect your fan perspective. But I am speaking from what I have read from team personnel. Wouldn't it be more authentic to believe them, than a fan with zero insider knowledge? Yes, Schumacher was beaten by Rosberg, same way George beat Lewis in 2022 and potentially, this year too. Does that really mean anything? If only because Schumacher was beaten by Rosberg his contributions be neglected, then so should Lewis', even if team comes out and lauds Lewis for his guidance and help in rebuilding the team. No?

2014 car was the boggesr regulation change and the schuman left more than a year beforre that.

[PlatinumZealot]

Schumacher was embarrassed by Rosberg three years in a row. But that's quietly forgotten. Did Schumacher help to develop the title winning cars? No. No he did not.

Schumi, Brawn and Costa were essential for setting up the foundation for the team much like Ferrari was set up when they were there. Schumi was severly injured in bike crash in 2009, coma for a month and left side of the body paralysed for almost 6 months. He was never the same physically since. Let's not twist the facts and make stuff up

You are talking about foundation of a team but the topic is about developing cars. As trump wpuld say? big big big difference!

[PlatinumZealot]

Pretty much. His fans won’t like hearing it, but sometimes F1 careers come and go, and fail to materialise into anything. F1 is about timing and the cards falling into place. Russell missed the boat in the last regulation, and now it looks like Toto is already lining up his new dream pairing in Max & Kimi. Max bringing staff with him, is also the golden ticket Toto has been looking for, in order to reenergise Merc’s failing technical team.

I agree with that, with the exception that I think Russell would have a good chance to move to Redbull. With Max gone, Perez makes even less sense, so let's assume both seats are available. IMO Russell is a much better choice than both Riccardo and Tsunoda. Russell at Redbull could be the best move of his career.

I realize there is a lot of assumptions that are taken for granted here, but it's fun to speculate!

if the rumors are true redbull will be the worst choice, bad engine, technical team left with max

Hhmm there could be truth to this!!
If there is smoke there is usually fire! Really really messy engine dyno results and a toxic boardroom is enough for stalwarts like Newey and Marko to callit a day and then Max will just jump bridge to the bighest bidder.
But it's a discussion for the redbull thread.

[PlatinumZealot]

F1-insider (German outlet who were getting fed information by Austrian/verstappen camp of red bull during the Horner saga and when Marko was being ousted at Saudi GP) report that Verstappen team will meet with Mercedes after Miami to see if a deal can be struck

https://f1-insider.com/formel-1-verstap ... gen-63046/

Says that Verstappen wants to bring engineers with him as well as Marko

Marko and corporate?! Nah.

Marko is cut from the same cloth as Lauda.

Lauda was very rich with a busines background and had shares in the team. Not much in common with Marko outside of being Austrian racing drivers that have mouths with no filters attached.

[organic]

F1-insider (German outlet who were getting fed information by Austrian/verstappen camp of red bull during the Horner saga and when Marko was being ousted at Saudi GP) report that Verstappen team will meet with Mercedes after Miami to see if a deal can be struck

https://f1-insider.com/formel-1-verstap ... gen-63046/

Says that Verstappen wants to bring engineers with him as well as Marko

Marko and corporate?! Nah.

They will probably offer a lauda-esque advisor position outside of the corporate structure. Toto has already suggested as much

We're missing our old mascot anyway [Niki Lauda],” he teased. “Then we'll just get Helmut. He's the right age. He doesn't have a red cap, but then he'll come to us.
“Helmut is not a child of sadness and was - or is - our favourite enemy. But he is a real racer. He certainly made a huge contribution to the team’s performance over the years.

He has been full of praise to Verstappen and Marko in the last couple of months. Obviously courtship

With the revelation that Verstappen has an exit clause in his contract such that he could leave Red Bull if Marko is no longer there.. it is obvious that Verstappen and Marko are a package deal.

If I were toto I'd make room for Marko just to get Verstappen to sign, and seems like that's what he's trying to do

[Dunlay]

Schumacher was embarrassed by Rosberg three years in a row. But that's quietly forgotten. Did Schumacher help to develop the title winning cars? No. No he did not.

I respect your fan perspective. But I am speaking from what I have read from team personnel. Wouldn't it be more authentic to believe them, than a fan with zero insider knowledge? Yes, Schumacher was beaten by Rosberg, same way George beat Lewis in 2022 and potentially, this year too. Does that really mean anything? If only because Schumacher was beaten by Rosberg his contributions be neglected, then so should Lewis', even if team comes out and lauds Lewis for his guidance and help in rebuilding the team. No?

2014 car was the boggesr regulation change and the schuman left more than a year beforre that.

So 2022 is Lewis' creation? I know it's really stupid to attribute the failure to Lewis, as much as the success of 2014.

[TeamKoolGreen]

I am Dutch. I know just the kind of guy Jos Verstappen is. Toto has no idea what he's getting himself into. What makes Toto think he can keep the peace at Mercedes with guys like Jos and Helmut around ? They will find things to be pissed off about. Even after the first 150 million starts rolling in. The first one to go will have to be George. George Russell and Toto go back to when George was a kid. But George will have to get moved off. George and Max's entourages will get along like cats and dogs. All it took was one win on merit for Checo to get Jos pissed off and talking to the media about Red Bull not supporting Max enough.

Christian Horner has 18 years of experience managing people at Red Bull. And he couldn't manage Jos and the gang even while they were bagging titles. Managing personalities is not one of Toto's strengths. He will say the wrong thing or make the wrong executive decision and the whole thing will turn to sh**.

I am surprised that Toto is going down this road. Take your chances with George and Antonelli.

[TeamKoolGreen]

I was going to say, they were having a moan about how the engine was overall in terms of the FIA's design, rather than complaining about their own engine unit

Yes. Red Bull said that the 2026 power units were weak a year ago. And everyone scoffed at it. And then the FIA found out a year later that Red Bull was right. But people still like to carry on with this myth they created about the alleged bad RBPT power unit.

[PlatinumZealot]

I respect your fan perspective. But I am speaking from what I have read from team personnel. Wouldn't it be more authentic to believe them, than a fan with zero insider knowledge? Yes, Schumacher was beaten by Rosberg, same way George beat Lewis in 2022 and potentially, this year too. Does that really mean anything? If only because Schumacher was beaten by Rosberg his contributions be neglected, then so should Lewis', even if team comes out and lauds Lewis for his guidance and help in rebuilding the team. No?

2014 car was the boggesr regulation change and the schuman left more than a year beforre that.

So 2022 is Lewis' creation? I know it's really stupid to attribute the failure to Lewis, as much as the success of 2014.

It is well documented that Lewis was ignored onthe creation of the 2014 car.
But seriously though.. 2025 is continuous regs from 2024 it is not unreasonable to see how the experimentation in 2024 will feed into it.

[Dunlay]

I am Dutch. I know just the kind of guy Jos Verstappen is. Toto has no idea what he's getting himself into. What makes Toto think he can keep the peace at Mercedes with guys like Jos and Helmut around ? They will find things to be pissed off about. Even after the first 150 million starts rolling in. The first one to go will have to be George. George Russell and Toto go back to when George was a kid. But George will have to get moved off. George and Max's entourages will get along like cats and dogs. All it took was one win on merit for Checo to get Jos pissed off and talking to the media about Red Bull not supporting Max enough.

Christian Horner has 18 years of experience managing people at Red Bull. And he couldn't manage Jos and the gang even while they were bagging titles. Managing personalities is not one of Toto's strengths. He will say the wrong thing or make the wrong executive decision and the whole thing will turn to sh**.

I am surprised that Toto is going down this road. Take your chances with George and Antonelli.

I concur. While Max is undoubtedly an asset, but what he is bringing along is going to destroy Mercedes like it has done Red Bull. Unfortunately, Toto is not in a position of strength in this deal and has to cave in to Max's demands if he has to sign the deal. Instead of getting caught in this ugly storm, George should reach out to Horner. Neither Max nor Jos are going to be civil if beaten by George on track, which invariably will happen often.

[chrisc90]

. Neither Max nor Jos are going to be civil if beaten by George on track, which invariably will happen often.

Very bold statement to make there.

[f1isgood]

. Neither Max nor Jos are going to be civil if beaten by George on track, which invariably will happen often.

Very bold statement to make there.

I don't think Max will have an issue but Jos did over-react after Monaco 2022 for instance, even if Perez did crash intentionally. And also I think people will agree George is a better driver than Sergio, so it is only natural he beats Max more often than Sergio.

[chrisc90]

. Neither Max nor Jos are going to be civil if beaten by George on track, which invariably will happen often.

Very bold statement to make there.

I don't think Max will have an issue but Jos did over-react after Monaco 2022 for instance, even if Perez did crash intentionally. And also I think people will agree George is a better driver than Sergio, so it is only natural he beats Max more often than Sergio.

Perez has 5 wins with Red Bull. Max has 58.

Its highly questionable that George would beat Max 'often', as the originally quoted post suggests. I would say Perez and George are somewhere on the same level, but they aren't in the same league as Max.

I really don't think Max would go to Mercedes - a team on the decline. This is no longer the peak 2014-2021 Mercedes team that were running rings round everyone with a massively better engine. Operationally, Red Bull are the best team on the grid, and very rarely have a 'off day'. Why would Max go from a team that's as dominant as they are currently to a 4th or 5th best team with no real outlook of getting performance back?

Everything is relying on speculation and twisted media reports of inner happenings from teams. Nobody is going to realistically know what the 2026 PU's are like come qualifying and race day in 2 years time when we see them cranked up.

What does Toto have to offer that Max currently doesn't have at Red Bull?

[Dunlay]

Its highly questionable that George would beat Max 'often', as the originally quoted post suggests. I would say Perez and George are somewhere on the same level, but they aren't in the same league as Max.

Until the match up is done, we don't know if George is going to destroy Max or be on par with him or get totally humiliated. One is driving a dream car and the other one in an absolute turd. Before Max got a good car in 2021, he was reckless and his 2018 Brazil's brain dead moment with Ocon, on and off the track and the Monza 2021 shows he can break with a certain amount of pressure. Everybody knows Perez is utterly low quality and is there just to support Max. Max hasn't had a team mate of quality since the peak Daniel Ricciardo until 2018 and hence, one can never say how good or fragile he can be against a strong team mate. Look what happened to Seb when Daniel joined and once he left Red Bull. Great cars with useless team mates can make a driver look better than he actually is.