Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[ferkan]

So compressor in the V, and MGU-H between it and turbine. Piping going from intercooler to compressor through the V as well to save space I suppose. Reminds me of Ferraris design, very compact and tidy but could prove to be a bit of a pain in long term.

[salva021291]

the axial compressor has a compression ratio less than the centrifugal if other parameters are equal, and to have high compression ratios need to do more stages of compression, what prohibited by Regulation i think.

So are You sure that Honda can use axial compressor?

[Brian Coat]

Does anyone think Honda might be trying Mixed Flow Turbine?

IHI is pretty active in this area for turbochargers.

What do people think?

[johnny comelately]

in Alonso's car the Honda was stuttering like traction control was in operation when he gave it some throttle, any thoughts?

They cut cylinders for part load operation.
It sounds weird, like the engine would not work properly, but it is a more energy efficient than throttling the engine.

so are the hondas throtteless?

[johnny comelately]

Does anyone think Honda might be trying Mixed Flow Turbine?

IHI is pretty active in this area for turbochargers.

What do people think?

with the electric spin up of the turbo, things like MFT may be a secondary consideration (just a thought Brian)

[dren]

Yeah, just did a little bit of reading on them. It looks like their main advantage is better efficiency at lower speed ratios. Something like you stated the MGUH takes care of.

[dren]

I highly doubt it is an axial compressor. You'd have to make an 180 degree bend with the charge air pipe. Remember the pictures of the Mercedes compressor last year? It is almost flush with the V, but right at the front of the ICE. This is probably similar.

Here is the W05 PU to jog everyone's memory:

[dmjunqueira]

There are already some automotive axial turbines in the market...
In this example, the tubine is axial and the compressor is radial:

http://ae-plus.com/technology/honeywell ... r-response

[Blackout]

Indeed, the compressor airbox seem to penetrate the V from the top and there is no space in front of the engine because the oil tank and the intercooler-inlet duct are placed there. So the compressor lies in the V or is at the back.
So if it's in the V, the Honda compressor looks like an axial flow supercharger?

[frosty125]

I highly doubt it is an axial compressor. You'd have to make an 180 degree bend with the charge air pipe. Remember the pictures of the Mercedes compressor last year? It is almost flush with the V, but right at the front of the ICE. This is probably similar.

Here is the W05 PU to jog everyone's memory:
http://www.omnicorse.it/img/articoli/ev ... rcedes.jpg

Sorry you wouldn't need a 180 bend for an axial and if you look the pics in my last post they show the air intake going into the V not to the front like Merc. Compressor is in the V.

[Blackout]

There are already some automotive axial turbines in the market...
In this example, the tubine is axial and the compressor is radial:

http://ae-plus.com/technology/honeywell ... r-response

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz0qZpxXnLg

And the compressor is smaller like the honeywell dual-boost TC?

[Blackout]

I highly doubt it is an axial compressor. You'd have to make an 180 degree bend with the charge air pipe. Remember the pictures of the Mercedes compressor last year? It is almost flush with the V, but right at the front of the ICE. This is probably similar.

Here is the W05 PU to jog everyone's memory:
http://www.omnicorse.it/img/articoli/ev ... rcedes.jpg

There are already some automotive axial turbines in the market...
In this example, the tubine is axial and the compressor is radial:

http://ae-plus.com/technology/honeywell ... r-response

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz0qZpxXnLg

And the compressor is smaller like the honeywell dual-boost TC?
Dren might be right; the compressor might be radial and it's just smaller...

[dren]

The intake looks to flow down into the top of the compressor and then out of the side, just like similarly used radial compressors.

Here is Renault's (close enough):



And as I stated before, if you look at how thin and tight the Mercedes compressor is pushed up against the front of the engine in the V, I don't see why the Honda unit wouldn't be similar. Perhaps it is even cast into the actual block of the ICE.

[dren]

And the compressor is smaller like the honeywell dual-boost TC?
Dren might be right; the compressor might be radial and it's just smaller...

I kept thinking the dual boost was dual stage, even though the wheel is basically back to back compressor wheels. Or does the dual boost not qualify as dual stage?

[akshat21]

I highly doubt it is an axial compressor. You'd have to make an 180 degree bend with the charge air pipe. Remember the pictures of the Mercedes compressor last year? It is almost flush with the V, but right at the front of the ICE. This is probably similar.

Here is the W05 PU to jog everyone's memory:
http://www.omnicorse.it/img/articoli/ev ... rcedes.jpg

There are already some automotive axial turbines in the market...
In this example, the tubine is axial and the compressor is radial:

http://ae-plus.com/technology/honeywell ... r-response

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz0qZpxXnLg

And the compressor is smaller like the honeywell dual-boost TC?
Dren might be right; the compressor might be radial and it's just smaller...

IIRC, the turbo is made by IHI, the same guys who are making the turbo for Mercedes. If Honda did incorporate Honeywell's idea into their engine without giving them any credit for it, it may lead to a patent infringement situation, especially considering how honeywell would be pushing all marketing avenues for the new turbo.