General Honda F1 Topic

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
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JordanMugen
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Pat Pending wrote:
31 May 2023, 16:50
PlatinumZealot wrote:
28 May 2023, 12:51
You know, this news has soaked in a bit and I'm really perplexed by these two companies joining forces! As auto manufacturers they are totally different in their cars types, their style their engines and many other things... Such a weird combination.
There is no tie up between Honda and Aston Martin. The tie up is between Honda and the F1 team currently (co)sponsored by Aston Martin.
True, but many are quick to point out that company name is Aston Martin Racing Limited and not Racing Point Limited any more. It's a 10 year arrangement with Aston Martin so there seems little opportunity for Honda Racing to replace Aston Martin Racing as the team naming rights sponsor, unfortunately.

Hoffman900
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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JordanMugen wrote:
01 Jun 2023, 20:39
Pat Pending wrote:
31 May 2023, 16:50
PlatinumZealot wrote:
28 May 2023, 12:51
You know, this news has soaked in a bit and I'm really perplexed by these two companies joining forces! As auto manufacturers they are totally different in their cars types, their style their engines and many other things... Such a weird combination.
There is no tie up between Honda and Aston Martin. The tie up is between Honda and the F1 team currently (co)sponsored by Aston Martin.
True, but many are quick to point out that company name is Aston Martin Racing Limited and not Racing Point Limited any more. It's a 10 year arrangement with Aston Martin so there seems little opportunity for Honda Racing to replace Aston Martin Racing as the team naming rights sponsor, unfortunately.
Same as the Mclaren Group vs Mclaren Racing Limited vs Mclaren Automotive, and there are other subsidiaries current and defunct as part of all of those.

I think everyone working in the corporate world knows they structure everything independent of each other (for profit and to manage corporate risk, funding reasons, plus tax advantages), and the corporate mothership owns various percentages of their subsidiaries.

Everyone needs to look at the race team as an entirely separate entity from the road side / branding.

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ispano6
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https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/how- ... /10488913/

It's nice to see Kakuda-san involved as general manager of HRC, that is a huge plus. Hopefully this arrangement will make running HRC a stable operation. It's clear that the board needed to sign off on a financial model that generates income and a customer supply should contribute toward that.

jworley641
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It is safe to presume that the Honda engine has been running on the engine dyno and simulator at RBT since the Honda to Torro Rosso announcement and possibly even being backed to backed against the 2017 Renault.

I wish there was testing like the old days because not only would we have torro rosso running around with a honda engine already but Red Bull would most likely be testing the Honda engine as well with the expected break up at the end of 2018 with Renault. Honda would also have seen the issues with their 2017 engine much sooner and have been able to put into place solutions much sooner.

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bigblue
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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You're a bit late with that post.

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etusch
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Interview with Koji Watanabe, President of HRC

When the automobile industry became more marketing-driven, vehicles started to resemble others and their individuality faded away. For this reason, for the past two years, we have been discussing "What direction should Honda take in the future?” As a result, we decided to reconsider our slogan, and we returned to "The Power of Dreams".

....

Presently, the stagnation of MotoGP is a major issue for Honda/HRC, so we have determined to regain our strength with an all-HRC structure. To this end, the four-wheel development team is involved in MotoGP development, and is moving to produce tangible results as soon as possible.


https://honda.racing/post/2023-koji-watanabe-interview

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Wouter
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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etusch wrote:
11 Aug 2023, 21:16
Interview with Koji Watanabe, President of HRC

When the automobile industry became more marketing-driven, vehicles started to resemble others and their individuality faded away. For this reason, ......................

https://honda.racing/post/2023-koji-watanabe-interview
.
Thank you for sharing this @etusch! 👍
The Power of Dreams!

KimiRai
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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KimiRai wrote:
17 Aug 2023, 02:03
https://www.racefans.net/2023/08/16/tea ... its-krack/

Teams will need “drastic steps” on chassis to suit 2026 power units – Krack

Aston Martin team principal Mike Krack says he shares Red Bull counterpart Christian Horner’s concerns over Formula 1’s 2026 power unit regulations.

Red Bull’s Horner has repeatedly expressed worries this year about the power unit regulations set to be introduced in 2026. Although 1.6-litre V6 engines will be retained, the power unit designs will see heavily revised as F1 plans to drop the MGU-H element and greatly increases electrical power as a proportion of overall output.
Horner suggested that the rules risk creating “Frankenstein” cars and could lead to undesirable driving situations where drivers would have to shift down on long straights to maximise power unit performance. Reigning world champion Max Verstappen has also said the current regulations would produce “terrible” cars based on Red Bull’s early simulator analysis.

In an exclusive conversation with RaceFans, Krack was asked whether the 2026 regulations were a concern to him and his response was: “Yes, it is.”

“It is for all of us,” he continued. “I think the engine manufacturers – or the PU manufacturers that we have to call them – together with the FIA, they made this set of regulations believing that the chassis can follow. And then we have seen that we have to take some drastic steps on the chassis regulations to make it work. But it is technically possible.

“That is why I always say let’s work together in the interests of the whole thing to make it work. I’m quite confident that we can find a set of regs that will make it work and that everybody will be happy with.”

Aston Martin will move on from a long-term partnership with Mercedes predating the 1.6L V6 era when the 2026 power unit formula comes into effect as they switch supplier to Honda. Krack says that his team are already involved in heavy discussions with the Japanese manufacturer about the new power units.

“There is a dialogue on all fronts,” he said. “Be it from sporting – how many passes do you need – be it what structure you need in the paddock, do we sit together, do we do separate, these kind of things because they also have long, long lead times.

“But then it’s also about how is the packaging of the engine in a ’26 chassis from what we know so far. So these are these preliminary talks. You discuss basically from sporting, finance, technical, the whole areas, we all have defined partners or business partners. And the collaboration has started there with discussions regularly. We try to see each other here and there.”

Despite Honda infamously struggling during the early years of the hybrid turbo V6 era after they rejoined F1 as a power unit supplier in 2015, Krack says he is “very confident” that Honda will deliver a strong power unit in 2026.

“I’m very confident because from what I see Honda is fantastic, they are real racers,” Krack said. “They push everything and you see, they are giving the world championship engine.

“It is more about being humble, like how can we cope and how can we maintain a high level with them. But there is no prejudice at all, from what I have seen so far I’m very impressed.”

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ispano6
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Getting some Aston Martin Vibes with that green ;)

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ispano6
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A nice feature on Kakuda-san from this weekend's race.

How Honda's F1 withdrawal turbo-charged its title success
Honda's partnership with Red Bull has become one of the most successful in Formula 1 history.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/how- ... /10523572/

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JordanMugen
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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Did Honda really sign an exclusive deal with Aston Martin such that a second team like McLaren cannot be added? This seems an oversight. :(

KimiRai
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Honda has a big challenge to resolve to prepare properly for its new Formula 1 engine project with the Aston Martin team in 2026.

Once Honda stops supplying the two Red Bull F1 teams with engines after the 2025 season, it will switch to an exclusive Aston Martin supply for the new engine rules.

Aston Martin tempted Honda to commit to a brand-new engine project for 2026 despite the company only formally withdrawing from F1 at the end of 2021.

The odd circumstances around Honda’s exit - as it committed to a four-year ongoing supply to Red Bull despite officially quitting F1, and subsequently increased the - understandably make some view Honda’s participation as unbroken.

However, there were significant tangible consequences from the original decision to quit.

The main development work continued until the different parts of the power unit were frozen across 2022, and smaller projects remained active looking into different aspects of the potential 2026 power unit regulations even without a guarantee Honda would actually commit to a full programme.

This was all managed across a smaller operation. Many members of the F1 project were reallocated to Honda’s mass production projects in Japan. Honda also sold a bespoke facility in Milton Keynes to Red Bull Powertrains.

This meant Honda’s initial preparations for 2026 were compromised, even though CEO Toshihiro Mibe claimed the development team and engineers still in place were working hard to ensure a “great performance from the very beginning”, and HRC leader Koji Watanabe said “we don’t think we have lost much”.

As reported by The Race, Honda was in need of either a recruitment drive or a significant reallocation of staff back to F1 - and this has effectively been confirmed by Tetsushi Kakuda, HRC’s F1 project leader.

He has conceded that resources are “the most difficult point for us” now the 2026 programme has formally begun but “we are getting bigger resources”.

After joking that “everything” is a challenge with the engine rules, Kakuda added: “Technically, we have to have a bigger electrical technology and also we have to find a good combustion solution with sustainable fuel.

“And also, we have to solve our ‘less resources’ problem. That is a big challenge for us.”

This is understood to be a reference to the staffing of the project, with efforts under way to address the personnel shortfall resulting from its official F1 exit, rather than a financial matter.

Though Honda intends to spend less on F1 this time around as well, it is believed that its 2026 partner Aston Martin is making a significant financial contribution - similar to how Red Bull currently pays Honda effectively as a contractor to build, maintain and supply its engines until 2025.

That means Honda can commit to the project without it being the same financial drain as previously, while also spending what should be needed to build a competitive new engine.

It is understood that more details still need to be fleshed out for how the 2026 Honda power unit will come together.

Honda has increased, and is likely still increasing, its hybrid technology knowledge, with the loss of the MGU-H offset by a significantly upgraded MGU-K that takes the power output to almost 50/50 between internal combustion and the electrical side.

Presently, alongside building the engines, Honda supplies the battery cell to Red Bull Powertrains. Kakuda said that “for the future, we’d like to also control the same situation”, indicating HRC needs to find a way to be able to design, develop and build items like the battery pack - which may mean trying to buy back the UK site that was sold to Red Bull, for example.

Another option is to have a full-time facility on the much-vaunted Aston Martin technology ‘campus’, although it would seem to make it more likely that Honda will want a degree of separation to get the “control” that Kakuda referenced.

The positive for Honda is that unlike previous F1 exits and returns, it is not starting completely from scratch - partly because it has excelled in the engine rules cycle that immediately precedes the 2026 engine, and partly because it deliberately kept those small teams working on 2026 projects.

Honda has been working on the combustion side with a single-cylinder engine on the dyno and began assessments on uprated battery technology and 100% sustainable and synthetic fuels at the end of 2021.

“To study,” Kakuda stressed. “At that moment, we didn’t think [for certain] we would be joining Formula 1 from 2026.

“But we have already started.”

Another element to factor in, though - and this is where that 'less resources' reference is most applicable - is that key project members have left. Honda F1 leader Masashi Yamamoto left to become a Red Bull consultant, while Sakura boss Yasuaki Asaki has retired.

But technical director Toyoharu Tanabe has remained involved by leading the group of engineers working on the 2026 project prior to it being confirmed and representing Honda in all the meetings relating to the definition of the 2026 rules.

HRC technical director Masamitsu Motohashi, who replaced Tanabe in the most front-facing active role after 2021, is also said to be based in Japan now having previously worked on-site at grands prix as head of Honda's trackside operations.

Kakuda believes there is enough continuation for the 2015-21 project, which has ultimately won many races and titles, to be a successful guide for the 2026 programme too.

“Of course, we can use current knowledge for the 2026 development,” he said.

“[Before] the 2026 project, every time Honda completely stopped the Formula 1 project and then started from zero.

“But for 2026 we have continued participating in current Formula 1 and also some of the key personnel are still in our project members.

“So, it's a good position for future development.”
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/hond ... e-project/

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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ispano6 wrote:
18 Aug 2023, 22:04
Getting some Aston Martin Vibes with that green ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzbF6hqNrn0
Acura always had that neon yellow/green look though. Sort of a coincidence.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

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etusch
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Re: General Honda F1 Topic

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I remember we were talking about redbull honda partnership while aston martin is the sponsor. now aston martin will use honda engine.

KimiRai
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Honda’s rebranded US motorsport division will contribute to the development of the new Formula 1 power unit that will be raced by Aston Martin from 2026.

In addition, its staff will be present at circuits with the Silverstone-based team in race support roles.

The organisation previously known as Honda Performance Development has from today been renamed Honda Racing Corporation USA, in a move that was originally announced in September.

The change reflects closer ties with HRC Japan as the US arm steps up its involvement in the company’s global programmes.

Honda says that “with three F1 races now in the US, the new HRC US will be involved in F1 power unit development and race support starting in 2026.”

Any R&D contribution from the US side will have to fall under the auspices of the FIA’s power unit financial regulations that accompany the new spec engines that will be raced from 2026, and which came into force on January 1 this year.

In other words, work undertaken on the F1 project in the USA will have to be fully accounted for within the PU cost cap, and will correspondingly reduce the amount of resource that can be deployed by HRC Japan.

HPD was created by American Honda Motor Co Inc in 1993, prior to the company’s debut as a works supplier in Indy car the following year.

Since then Honda has earned 15 Indy 500 wins, although six were logged when it was the sole supplier to the series.

Honda has won 13 drivers’ championships and 10 manufacturers’ championships in seasons when it faced competition from other suppliers.

The California-based HPD organisation has also been involved in IMSA, Baja off-road competitions, touring cars and Formula Regional America.

“The team and I here at HRC US are excited and humbled to embark on this next racing adventure,” said HRC US president David Salters.

“Honda’s racing heritage is exceptional. I have just come back from Honda’s annual ‘Thanks Day’ activity at the Twin Ring Motegi circuit: Moto GP, F1, Indycar, motocross, Dakar endurance, trials, touring car, Super GT all being demonstrated at the highest level by a paddock full of world champions.

“Only Honda does this. We challenge ourselves and entertain our amazing Honda Racing fans across all pinnacle racing, two and four wheels.

“Add Honda’s cool car and bike culture, cutting edge technology and superb vehicles to this and you can only feel immensely proud to be joining our companies and amazing people together to make one global racing organization, HRC Honda Racing.

"This really is the power of dreams, moreover we get to race our dreams.”

Speaking in September, HRC Japan president Koji Watanabe stressed the benefits of bringing the two operations closer together.

“Our goal is to increase the HRC brand and sustain the success of our racing activities, and we believe that uniting Honda motorsports globally as one racing organisation will help achieve that,” he said.

“Our race engineers in the US and Japan will be stronger together, and I am so happy to welcome our US associates to the HRC team.”
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... /10559282/