2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

[FW17]

... Maybe they will go to neutral gear

why ?

amusingly (iirc) the Monaco GP has a higher permissible MGU-K 'take' than any other race
as it has the highest lap count

Can't get my head around how a 350kw engine will power the 350kw motor and heavy set of wheels in comparison to when the wheels are disconnected from the engine

[wuzak]

... Maybe they will go to neutral gear

why ?

amusingly (iirc) the Monaco GP has a higher permissible MGU-K 'take' than any other race
as it has the highest lap count

Can't get my head around how a 350kw engine will power the 350kw motor and heavy set of wheels in comparison to when the wheels are disconnected from the engine

When will it do that?

[TeamKoolGreen]

This means that, at low-speed corners, such as the hairpin at Monaco – the slowest corner on the calendar – the engines will be heard at full revs despite the low speed.

That seems unlikely.

The ICE is connected to the wheels via the gearbox, which may only have 6 gears instead of 8.

Currently the cars drive through the hairpin with minimum engine speed of ~4,500rpm.

It is likely that in 2026 the rpms will be similar, possibly slightly lower due to the fewer number of gears, but the throttles on the engine will be fully open, and the ICE delivering approximately 100kW to the MGUK.

The driver's throttle pedal will at or near 0%.

The ICE won't be at "full revs" (15,000rpm maximum, 10,500rpm for maximum power).

But the gearbox will be connected to the electric motor. And the ICE is just there to generate electricity. So why couldn't the ICE be fully revved up while the driver is just controlling the electric output with the throttle pedal and gears ? And not the fuel to the ice.

This is Newey saying this. And he also mentioned it earlier when Horner made the very apt Frankstien cars comment.

[TeamKoolGreen]

The clutch can disengage and the engine will just power the batteries in those places where the electric motors will be more efficient.

Maybe they will go to neutral gear after 8th

They won't have to. The throttle pedal and gears only control the electric output. The ICE will be controlled by a computer that is just determining how much electricity to generate at any given time.

On some of the straight stretches , depending on the track, one could assume that the ICE will be at near idle going down the straight too. Full revs in the corners and idle on the straights.

This coupled with the active aero is pure madness but what can we do about it.. Except shut it off.

[AR3-GP]

Maybe they will go to neutral gear after 8th

They won't have to. The throttle pedal and gears only control the electric output. The ICE will be controlled by a computer that is just determining how much electricity to generate at any given time.

On some of the straight stretches , depending on the track, one could assume that the ICE will be at near idle going down the straight too. Full revs in the corners and idle on the straights.

This coupled with the active aero is pure madness but what can we do about it.. Except shut it off.

I don't think that's correct. The ICE can't idle on a straight. It's connected to the wheels.

[wuzak]

This means that, at low-speed corners, such as the hairpin at Monaco – the slowest corner on the calendar – the engines will be heard at full revs despite the low speed.

That seems unlikely.

The ICE is connected to the wheels via the gearbox, which may only have 6 gears instead of 8.

Currently the cars drive through the hairpin with minimum engine speed of ~4,500rpm.

It is likely that in 2026 the rpms will be similar, possibly slightly lower due to the fewer number of gears, but the throttles on the engine will be fully open, and the ICE delivering approximately 100kW to the MGUK.

The driver's throttle pedal will at or near 0%.

The ICE won't be at "full revs" (15,000rpm maximum, 10,500rpm for maximum power).

But the gearbox will be connected to the electric motor. And the ICE is just there to generate electricity. So why couldn't the ICE be fully revved up while the driver is just controlling the electric output with the throttle pedal and gears ? And not the fuel to the ice.

The gerabox is connected to the ICE, with the clutch between them.

The MGUK will be connected to the front of the crankshaft,

5.20.1 The MGU‐K must be mechanically fixed to the survival cell, the ICE or both.
5.20.2 Under normal operating conditions all MGU‐K rotating parts must be permanently
mechanically linked to the ICE with a fixed speed ratio to the crankshaft. The MGU‐K and its
drive axis must be parallel to the crankshaft axis.
5.20.3 All mechanical power to and from the MGU‐K must pass through a single shaft to the MGU‐K
transmission. The connection to the ICE crankshaft must be ahead of XPU=100.

XPU = 0 is the mounting face of the ICE to the chassis.
But the gearbox will be connected to the electric motor. And the ICE is just there to generate electricity. So why couldn't the ICE be fully revved up while the driver is just controlling the electric output with the throttle pedal and gears ? And not the fuel to the ice.

This is Newey saying this. And he also mentioned it earlier when Horner made the very apt Frankstien cars comment.

I believe Newey said that the ICE would be working very hard in corners like Loews Hairppin at Monaco. Not that it will be at high rpm.

[cheeRS]

That seems unlikely.

The ICE is connected to the wheels via the gearbox, which may only have 6 gears instead of 8.

Currently the cars drive through the hairpin with minimum engine speed of ~4,500rpm.

It is likely that in 2026 the rpms will be similar, possibly slightly lower due to the fewer number of gears, but the throttles on the engine will be fully open, and the ICE delivering approximately 100kW to the MGUK.

The driver's throttle pedal will at or near 0%.

The ICE won't be at "full revs" (15,000rpm maximum, 10,500rpm for maximum power).

But the gearbox will be connected to the electric motor. And the ICE is just there to generate electricity. So why couldn't the ICE be fully revved up while the driver is just controlling the electric output with the throttle pedal and gears ? And not the fuel to the ice.

The gerabox is connected to the ICE, with the clutch between them.

The MGUK will be connected to the front of the crankshaft,

5.20.1 The MGU‐K must be mechanically fixed to the survival cell, the ICE or both.
5.20.2 Under normal operating conditions all MGU‐K rotating parts must be permanently
mechanically linked to the ICE with a fixed speed ratio to the crankshaft. The MGU‐K and its
drive axis must be parallel to the crankshaft axis.
5.20.3 All mechanical power to and from the MGU‐K must pass through a single shaft to the MGU‐K
transmission. The connection to the ICE crankshaft must be ahead of XPU=100.

XPU = 0 is the mounting face of the ICE to the chassis.
But the gearbox will be connected to the electric motor. And the ICE is just there to generate electricity. So why couldn't the ICE be fully revved up while the driver is just controlling the electric output with the throttle pedal and gears ? And not the fuel to the ice.

This is Newey saying this. And he also mentioned it earlier when Horner made the very apt Frankstien cars comment.

I believe Newey said that the ICE would be working very hard in corners like Loews Hairppin at Monaco. Not that it will be at high rpm.

That's not what he said or implied nor is it what the point of the article was. Take a look, emphasis mine.

This means that, at low-speed corners, such as the hairpin at Monaco – the slowest corner on the calendar – the engines will be heard at full revs despite the low speed.

Speaking in an interview with Motorsport.com, Red Bull’s chief technical officer Adrian Newey admitted it’s going to be a very strange scenario to adjust to.

“It’s certainly going to be a strange formula in as much as the engines will be working flat-chat as generators just about the whole time,” he said.

“So, the prospect of the engine working hard in the middle of Loews hairpin is going to take some getting used to.”


flat chat
adverb
Australian English informal
us
/ˈflæt ˌtʃæt/ uk
/ˈflæt ˌtʃæt/
Add to word list
at the maximum speed, level, rate, etc. that is possible:



Further, it seems that some have taken this to mean that the ICE will be at low revs/idle on the straight. That would be completely illogical as that is typically when the powerunit needs to be making the most total power. This is reflected in what Newey said when he mentioned the ICE are going to be working "flat-chat" "just about the whole time".

[wuzak]

That's not what he said or implied nor is it what the point of the article was. Take a look, emphasis mine.

This means that, at low-speed corners, such as the hairpin at Monaco – the slowest corner on the calendar – the engines will be heard at full revs despite the low speed.

Not a direct quote. Written by the autor of the article.

“It’s certainly going to be a strange formula in as much as the engines will be working flat-chat as generators just about the whole time,” he said.

“So, the prospect of the engine working hard in the middle of Loews hairpin is going to take some getting used to.”


flat chat
adverb
Australian English informal
us
/ˈflæt ˌtʃæt/ uk
/ˈflæt ˌtʃæt/
Add to word list
at the maximum speed, level, rate, etc. that is possible:

"Flat chat", meaning that the ICE will be at full throttle and making the most power it can at that engine speed.

Further, it seems that some have taken this to mean that the ICE will be at low revs/idle on the straight. That would be completely illogical as that is typically when the powerunit needs to be making the most total power. This is reflected in what Newey said when he mentioned the ICE are going to be working "flat-chat" "just about the whole time".

Obviosuly that cannot be the case, since the speed of the car is directly proportional to the speed of the engine.

[wuzak]

Maybe they will go to neutral gear after 8th

They won't have to. The throttle pedal and gears only control the electric output. The ICE will be controlled by a computer that is just determining how much electricity to generate at any given time.

On some of the straight stretches , depending on the track, one could assume that the ICE will be at near idle going down the straight too. Full revs in the corners and idle on the straights.

This coupled with the active aero is pure madness but what can we do about it.. Except shut it off.

The throttle pedal determines power/torque demand.

The gear determines the speed at which the car is travelling or the rpm the engine is turning at a given speed.

The ECU will determine from the driver's throttle position, the car's speed, gear, battery state of charge and position on the track how much power shall be from the ICE and how much power from the MGUK.

The maximum MGUK output reduces over 290km/h (when not in override mode).

And the MGUK is directly connected to the ICE with a fixed speed ratio.

[wuzak]

btw, if the ICE is doing 10,500rpm at Loews Hairpin, the car will be doing ~100km/h or more in 1st gear.

[wuzak]

btw, if the ICE is doing 10,500rpm at Loews Hairpin, the car will be doing ~100km/h or more in 1st gear.

I must admit, I did make the same mistake a while back, possibly in the 2026 PU thread.

Then it was pointed out to me that the ICE is connected to the wheels.

[cheeRS]

That's not what he said or implied nor is it what the point of the article was. Take a look, emphasis mine.

This means that, at low-speed corners, such as the hairpin at Monaco – the slowest corner on the calendar – the engines will be heard at full revs despite the low speed.

Not a direct quote. Written by the autor of the article.

“It’s certainly going to be a strange formula in as much as the engines will be working flat-chat as generators just about the whole time,” he said.

“So, the prospect of the engine working hard in the middle of Loews hairpin is going to take some getting used to.”


flat chat
adverb
Australian English informal
us
/ˈflæt ˌtʃæt/ uk
/ˈflæt ˌtʃæt/
Add to word list
at the maximum speed, level, rate, etc. that is possible:

"Flat chat", meaning that the ICE will be at full throttle and making the most power it can at that engine speed.

Further, it seems that some have taken this to mean that the ICE will be at low revs/idle on the straight. That would be completely illogical as that is typically when the powerunit needs to be making the most total power. This is reflected in what Newey said when he mentioned the ICE are going to be working "flat-chat" "just about the whole time".

Obviosuly that cannot be the case, since the speed of the car is directly proportional to the speed of the engine.

To make a statement like that, you're ignoring the gearbox for some reason...? ICE cars don't make max power based on vehicle or final drive speed, it's purely based on RPM. So whether you're at 40mph on the lowes chicane, or you're at 200mph on the Kemmel, you're going to want the ICE operating at max power - I am generalizing here, but you'd never be at or anywhere near idle. I suppose the ONLY caveat to that would be if severe fuel saving/energy harvesting was required, but that's not what we or Newey are referring to, clearly. Otherwise, the ICE is going to 'want' to perform in the same way that it does as in a CVT-based car that is requesting maximum performance.

Anyway, I'd trust Newey's interpretation over most anyone here, and I mean that as a compliment to Newey and not as a dig to anyone here

As I prefaced before any quotes, I quoted Newey, who was quoted in the article, and I quoted the author of the article. Not sure what you mean by "not a direct quote."

Further, as it is and pretty much has always been, F1 cars operate in a narrow power band (RPM), so why would you want (or need) to operate at lower RPM on a straight?

[mzso]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/adrian-ne ... ge-formula
quote

This means that, at low-speed corners, such as the hairpin at Monaco – the slowest corner on the calendar – the engines will be heard at full revs despite the low speed.

Speaking in an interview with Motorsport.com, Red Bull’s chief technical officer Adrian Newey admitted it’s going to be a very strange scenario to adjust to.

“It’s certainly going to be a strange formula in as much as the engines will be working flat-chat as generators just about the whole time,” he said.

“So, the prospect of the engine working hard in the middle of Loews hairpin is going to take some getting used to.”

Prerry much what I predicted, and probably many others as well. The FIA will probably only notice it it in 2028.

What do you mean?

They have specifically allowed it in the rules.

Some people doubted whether there will be powered generating during turning at all.

[TeamKoolGreen]

btw, if the ICE is doing 10,500rpm at Loews Hairpin, the car will be doing ~100km/h or more in 1st gear.

In some way shape or form, Newey is implying that the ICE would be disengaged from the wheels and spooled up to generate electricity, for a competitive advantage. Could it not be done with the clutch in ? Maybe he's pointing to an obvious loophole in the writing of the rules which will see this being done for a competitive advantage. I don't know. Newey is the one saying it. Not me. And he said something similar awhile back already.

You are saying that the cars will be set up the exact same with just less ICE power correct ?

[wuzak]

To make a statement like that, you're ignoring the gearbox for some reason...? ICE cars don't make max power based on vehicle or final drive speed, it's purely based on RPM. So whether you're at 40mph on the lowes chicane, or you're at 200mph on the Kemmel, you're going to want the ICE operating at max power - I am generalizing here, but you'd never be at or anywhere near idle.

No, I'm not ignoring the gearbox.

For the example of Loews Hairpin, the car will be in the lowest gear it has (1st) so it will have the highest rpm for the road speed.

From an onboard video showing telemetry, the minimum rpm through that corner was 4,500rpm. Minimum speed was about 50km/h, but I'd have to double check that.

The car cannot negotiate the corner faster, so it cannot have higher rpm, unless 1st gear was lower (higher rpm for given road speed).

If the engine was at 9,000rpm, the car would be going twice as fast (ie ~100km/h), which wouldn't work for that hairpin.

So the engine will be making the most power it can at that rpm, not its maximum possible power.

Anyway, I'd trust Newey's interpretation over most anyone here, and I mean that as a compliment to Newey and not as a dig to anyone here

As I prefaced before any quotes, I quoted Newey, who was quoted in the article, and I quoted the author of the article. Not sure what you mean by "not a direct quote."

I am not questioning Newey, but the interpretation of the author of the article and some in here.

"Not a direct quote" is referring to quoting the article, but not an actual quote from Newey.

Further, as it is and pretty much has always been, F1 cars operate in a narrow power band (RPM), so why would you want (or need) to operate at lower RPM on a straight?

Referring to cheeRS's post?