Cadillac racing in F1 with Andretti

[ME4ME]

I think its very very unlikely that teams such as Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari feel threathened competitively by Andretti-Caddilac in the short/medium term. They could all spend half a billion a year if it would be allowed, GM has no advantage over them. Also money doesn't equal success just as Toyota found out. The current top teams are so optimized organizationally, so purposely setup and equipped, have the very best people regarding talent and Formula 1 experience, and are managed so well (M+RB) and have the absolute best drivers under contract. No new team is going to rival that within 5 years.

I think they will all come around and welcome Andretti-Caddilac. There is so much to gain internationally to allow them in. Also for Mercedes to beat Caddilac on a regular basis for the next 5 years with more and more Americans tuning in..that'll be worth a fortune marketing-wise.

[AR3-GP]

Does anyone find it ironic how easy it was for Mclaren to go race Indycars? And now an Indycar franchise wants to come to F1, and now even Mclaren are against it? It's not right.

Andretti said he has support, though, from existing teams McLaren and Renault-owned Alpine.

He insists rumours that this is because his team would have Renault engines is "not true".

"Zak [Brown, McLaren CEO] wants to do whatever he can to help us get there and so has Alpine as well," Andretti explained. "Zak Brown and Alpine are two very good allies. Zak has been very supportive.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... are-allies



Where have you read that Mclaren are blocking this?

I didn't read that Mclaren are blocking it. What I read was that 9 out of 10 teams were against Andretti joining.

Since Renault is rumored to be the engine supplier, then I didn't consider Alpine to challenge Andretti's admission. Therefore that leaves Mclaren.

It's possible that this 9 out of 10 teams rumor is false as it makes sense that Mclaren and Alpine support the Andretti entry. Zak has shown for a long while that he wants to ruffle the feathers of the establishment.

[saviour stivala]

Everybody have been reading this, that and the other pushed out by the F1 press in a sort of the most dry period in F1 goings on. Those who are the fastest to have hit out reading something that they would like to hear were fastest forming their opinion and returning to their usual hang-outs to express themselves. The cardinal mistake done was they didn't find the time to find out HOW, WHY and under which rules/conditions are the present ten teams on the grid allowed to be in, bond with. If instead of excepting blindly what the F1 media pushed out they just tried reading the Concord agreement, they would have found out that the present teams on the grid have no say about either a new entry nor about more money agreed as entry fee to be paid.

[mwillems]

Does anyone find it ironic how easy it was for Mclaren to go race Indycars? And now an Indycar franchise wants to come to F1, and now even Mclaren are against it? It's not right.

Andretti said he has support, though, from existing teams McLaren and Renault-owned Alpine.

He insists rumours that this is because his team would have Renault engines is "not true".

"Zak [Brown, McLaren CEO] wants to do whatever he can to help us get there and so has Alpine as well," Andretti explained. "Zak Brown and Alpine are two very good allies. Zak has been very supportive.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... are-allies



Where have you read that Mclaren are blocking this?

I didn't read that Mclaren are blocking it. What I read was that 9 out of 10 teams were against Andretti joining.

Since Renault is rumored to be the engine supplier, then I didn't consider Alpine to challenge Andretti's admission. Therefore that leaves Mclaren.

It's possible that this 9 out of 10 teams rumor is false as it makes sense that Mclaren and Alpine support the Andretti entry. Zak has shown for a long while that he wants to ruffle the feathers of the establishment.

Yes but you state specifically that Mclaren are against Andretti joining, so I assumed you read it somewhere and didn't make it up or assume.

[Mogster]

Andretti said he has support, though, from existing teams McLaren and Renault-owned Alpine.

He insists rumours that this is because his team would have Renault engines is "not true".

"Zak [Brown, McLaren CEO] wants to do whatever he can to help us get there and so has Alpine as well," Andretti explained. "Zak Brown and Alpine are two very good allies. Zak has been very supportive.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... are-allies



Where have you read that Mclaren are blocking this?

I didn't read that Mclaren are blocking it. What I read was that 9 out of 10 teams were against Andretti joining.

Since Renault is rumored to be the engine supplier, then I didn't consider Alpine to challenge Andretti's admission. Therefore that leaves Mclaren.

It's possible that this 9 out of 10 teams rumor is false as it makes sense that Mclaren and Alpine support the Andretti entry. Zak has shown for a long while that he wants to ruffle the feathers of the establishment.

Yes but you state specifically that Mclaren are against Andretti joining, so I assumed you read it somewhere and didn't make it up or assume.

Not against, Brown just said yesterday that Andretti GM need to go through the process like everyone else.

It’ll be interesting to find out who these other entities are that have proposals. Are there 2-3 that are more attractive than Andretti GM? Are the existing teams aware of these proposals? It seems unlikely that other OEMs are waiting to join (Hyundai, Geely?) but it can’t completely be ruled out. What are Porsche doing?

[mwillems]

I didn't read that Mclaren are blocking it. What I read was that 9 out of 10 teams were against Andretti joining.

Since Renault is rumored to be the engine supplier, then I didn't consider Alpine to challenge Andretti's admission. Therefore that leaves Mclaren.

It's possible that this 9 out of 10 teams rumor is false as it makes sense that Mclaren and Alpine support the Andretti entry. Zak has shown for a long while that he wants to ruffle the feathers of the establishment.

Yes but you state specifically that Mclaren are against Andretti joining, so I assumed you read it somewhere and didn't make it up or assume.

Not against, Brown just said yesterday that Andretti GM need to go through the process like everyone else.

It’ll be interesting to find out who these other entities are that have proposals. Are there 2-3 that are more attractive than Andretti GM? Are the existing teams aware of these proposals? It seems unlikely that other OEMs are waiting to join (Hyundai, Geely?) but it can’t completely be ruled out. What are Porsche doing?

Yes if you read the chain you'll see me posting the link to show that Mclaren Aren't against, I just wanted to understand if there was more than one set of information, as some of this can be press generated.

Honda is rethinking its decision to leave the sport and may rejoin, at least as an engine supplier and perhaps as a team. Who knows who else is considering, this is one of the best times to join the sport, which is why Audi are joining, Porsche wantred to Join, Honda are thinking about rejoining, GM are looking to join with Andretti...

These days it makes financial sense to join now so I suspect it is whether it makes marketing sense for the various companies.

I'd truly love Ford to re-enter F1.

[Cs98]

I would think the 200 million alone is fairly strong evidence that anyone trying to come in with a new team is serious about their desires.

The willingness to pay the AD fee is evidence of nothing except that you understand the value of a grid spot. The moment an entry is approved those 200 million are going to be worth a whole lot more than that.

[Cs98]

The $200m anti-dilution fee is baked into the current Concorde Agreement between LibertyF1 and the teams, and as such, Andretti has contract law on its side. The teams can make (and are making) a cogent argument that the fee should be higher because of the upward trend in team valuations since the agreement was signed, but right now, if Andretti agrees to pay the $200m, then they have fulfilled that condition.
Arguments by existing teams that the GM proposal is only a "badging deal" are not exactly credible when Alfa Romeo is paying to have its brand name plastered on the Sauber cars and cam plates, and Aston Martin is branding an F1 team while using Mercedes power units. Red Bull ran for 2 seasons with Tag Heuer badging on its Renault power units because they had a broken relationship with Renault at the time.
The teams can piss and moan and drag their heels on approving an entry, but ultimately LibertyF1 may have no way to prevent an Andretti entry, unless they want to be on the losing end of litigation. I suspect that the current Concorde Agreement has a provision for the use of Swiss law in the event of disputes. Andretti (and GM) could try litigation in the USA, but they would have to show that US courts have jurisdiction over F1 matters, so they might not be able to sue LibertyF1 in the US court system.
If US courts do have jurisdiction, they have shown in the past that they are willing to rule against sporting bodies and award punitive damages if they violate contract law. When the St. Louis Rams NFL team left St. Louis for Los Angeles, violating the NFL's own documented relocation rules, the city of St. Louis won $670m in damages. The case never came to court because the NFL settled rather than be embarrassed, and potentially end up paying even more than the agreed settlement.

A) To your point about Alfa, AM etc. You don't need to adopt more messy children just because you already have a few in the family. There's certainly no legal obligation to do so. No need to exacerbate the problem. Now if GM actually wants to enter F1 as a manufacturer, then more power to them. But a branding deal? We already have those and they blow. No need to add another.

B) FOM need to sign off on any new entry, and they seem to be siding with the teams so far. So no, Liberty will not be losing any contract disputes regarding this. Andretti is not entitled to a grid spot unless both the FIA and FOM approve it.

[Big Tea]

I think its very very unlikely that teams such as Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari feel threathened competitively by Andretti-Caddilac in the short/medium term. They could all spend half a billion a year if it would be allowed, GM has no advantage over them. Also money doesn't equal success just as Toyota found out. The current top teams are so optimized organizationally, so purposely setup and equipped, have the very best people regarding talent and Formula 1 experience, and are managed so well (M+RB) and have the absolute best drivers under contract. No new team is going to rival that within 5 years.

I think they will all come around and welcome Andretti-Caddilac. There is so much to gain internationally to allow them in. Also for Mercedes to beat Caddilac on a regular basis for the next 5 years with more and more Americans tuning in..that'll be worth a fortune marketing-wise.

I agree about them not feeling threatened competitively (for now) but my thoughts were they do not want control to go ta a group with different mind set and objectives.

For instance, Road car based builders may want what seems to have been called previously 'road relevance'
This could stretch from pump fuel to engines based on road (production) blocks or even pure economy or emission based.

The teams now there are there to make the best performing cars they can irrelevant of this being able to transfer to production cars or unit cost etc.

I believe they fear a change of direction

[Mogster]

Everybody have been reading this, that and the other pushed out by the F1 press in a sort of the most dry period in F1 goings on. Those who are the fastest to have hit out reading something that they would like to hear were fastest forming their opinion and returning to their usual hang-outs to express themselves. The cardinal mistake done was they didn't find the time to find out HOW, WHY and under which rules/conditions are the present ten teams on the grid allowed to be in, bond with. If instead of excepting blindly what the F1 media pushed out they just tried reading the Concord agreement, they would have found out that the present teams on the grid have no say about either a new entry nor about more money agreed as entry fee to be paid.

FOM is the commercial rights holder. There’s a suggestion that a right to veto this sort of change may sit within the commercial rights.

[FW17]

No one seems to know what FOM has with regards to the a new team. Are they to be in agreement with FIA jointly; for opening the slot for 11th team or selection of the 11th team. These are two different aspects.

[Big Tea]

No one seems to know what FOM has with regards to the a new team. Are they to be in agreement with FIA jointly; for opening the slot for 11th team or selection of the 11th team. These are two different aspects.

I suspect they will tread carefully so as to not to antagonise either side of the balance until there is something solid to examine

[FW17]

Berkshire Hathaway is a common share holder of both FOM and GM. Wonder if Berkshire Hathaway will sue FOM if GM is not let in on unproven grounds of GM bring value to FOM share holders.

[ElroyElroy]

Personally, I think the FIA and the teams are bonkers if they don't find a way to get/let Andretti in. IMHO, there are a few different reasons for that:

1) If they'd like the American crowd (and money), they need a larger American presence in the race. Haas is trying, but we've come to know that they'll reliably hold down the rear of any particular race. I'm not exactly sure what's wrong there. And neither of their drivers is American. And I'm not sure Logan Sargeant (Williams) is going to make it as an American driver.

2) If they (FIA & teams) just start doing everything they can to freeze out new teams (that meet qualifications), I'll start seeing the entire sport as a closed club, isolating any outside competition. In my eyes, it'll become a stagnant sport, and will eventually lose my interest.

3) The Andretti name in F1 is just a phenomenal name, with an extremely rich history. So why not let him in? I think it would do wonders for the sport, particularly on the American front. And hey, a Cadillac F1 car? That'd definitely be fun. It'd make me remember the classic Cadillacs, rather than the years when they introduced all the plastic that crumbled away after a few years.

[Mogster]

German media via Autosport suggesting the FIA will approve the Andretti GM bid but reject the Hitech, Carlin, LYKSUNZ bids.

As usual there’s no official confirmation of any of this.