Mercedes W15

[PlatinumZealot]

A broken clock is correct twice a day.

Thosw sensors are not broken, but the car's downforce is! At any moment in time it might make high downforce but does it laat througput the turn? Is it unstable? Those are the questions that Toto hasn't answered.

The sensors monitor the data for the whole lap every millisecond or second not once randomly

That's exactly what I implied.

[PlatinumZealot]

For those who are cast the experiments on car number 44 as some sort of made-up story. Here is ths truth, straight from the horse's mouth. Hopefully this puts to bed the deniers:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... ield-japan

As for why Hamilton was shockingly all too happy to yield to Russell, Wolff said experiments on Hamilton’s car had worsened front tyre wear and so he decided to be the ideal team player, at a time where Mercedes were just “testing” after all.

“There’s an easy explanation behind it,” Wolff began in reference to Hamilton’s yield. “Lewis again also we experimented on some things on his car and it looked like there was much worse degradation because of that on the front axle.


“And that’s why he said ‘I’m going to let him pass’, because it’s testing, like I say. And that was extremely fair play.

“It wasn’t like he was giving up a position for a podium, it was really trying to understand why wasn’t he fast at that stage and that was clearly because we were doing something to the car which we wanted to try.”

[venkyhere]

The W15 is a really weird beast, from the comments that toto & team members are saying, the sensor package on the car is measuring alot more downforce but it can't convert that to lap time, any idea what could cause that

full quote from toto
*Mercedes boss : “We are measuring downforce with our sensors and pressure tabs, and it's saying to us that we have 70 points more downforce in a particular corner in Melbourne than we had last year.*

*“But, on the lap time, it is not one kilometre per hour faster. It doesn't make any sense. So, where's the limitation?*

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... /10596354/

Here is a wild theory :

Someone in the 'wokflow modelling' team who was in charge of setting up the CAD tools, their licensing and workflow (how to run the commands, how to allocate servers etc) for the whole of the tech team, became a disgruntled employee in 2021 and went on to hack the executable (secret hidden parameter hack before firing the executable in the run script) for all the CAD tools (bought from external vendor or internal group supplied) and put in a x1.1 factor in all the calculations for downforce and 0.9x factor in all the calculations for drag. So when their modelling says X downforce and Y drag , it's actually 0.9X and 1.11Y. And then, promptly left the team, hiding a wicked smile.

Because, such revelation statements made Toto, prompts me to think of the wildest and most improbable reasons. to become possible. For a moment if we think the wild idea I typed above is possible, then everything that happened since Bahrain testing 2022 makes sense and falls in place.

[SiLo]

The W15 is a really weird beast, from the comments that toto & team members are saying, the sensor package on the car is measuring alot more downforce but it can't convert that to lap time, any idea what could cause that

full quote from toto
*Mercedes boss : “We are measuring downforce with our sensors and pressure tabs, and it's saying to us that we have 70 points more downforce in a particular corner in Melbourne than we had last year.*

*“But, on the lap time, it is not one kilometre per hour faster. It doesn't make any sense. So, where's the limitation?*

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... /10596354/

Here is a wild theory :

Someone in the 'wokflow modelling' team who was in charge of setting up the CAD tools, their licensing and workflow (how to run the commands, how to allocate servers etc) for the whole of the tech team, became a disgruntled employee in 2021 and went on to hack the executable (secret hidden parameter hack before firing the executable in the run script) for all the CAD tools (bought from external vendor or internal group supplied) and put in a x1.1 factor in all the calculations for downforce and 0.9x factor in all the calculations for drag. So when their modelling says X downforce and Y drag , it's actually 0.9X and 1.11Y. And then, promptly left the team, hiding a wicked smile.

Because, such revelation statements made Toto, prompts me to think of the wildest and most improbable reasons. to become possible. For a moment if we think the wild idea I typed above is possible, then everything that happened since Bahrain testing 2022 makes sense and falls in place.

I'm sure they have stripped and entirely rebuilt their CAD modelling solutions since 2022, though I do enjoy a good conspiracy theory.

[matteosc]

The W15 is a really weird beast, from the comments that toto & team members are saying, the sensor package on the car is measuring alot more downforce but it can't convert that to lap time, any idea what could cause that

full quote from toto
*Mercedes boss : “We are measuring downforce with our sensors and pressure tabs, and it's saying to us that we have 70 points more downforce in a particular corner in Melbourne than we had last year.*

*“But, on the lap time, it is not one kilometre per hour faster. It doesn't make any sense. So, where's the limitation?*

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... /10596354/

Most likely the downforce is not consistent enough to be fully used by the pilots. If you have 70 point more downforce (let's say on average), but it can suddenly drop of 70 points in the middle of the turn, then the added downforce is useless.

[cplchanb]

The W15 is a really weird beast, from the comments that toto & team members are saying, the sensor package on the car is measuring alot more downforce but it can't convert that to lap time, any idea what could cause that

full quote from toto
*Mercedes boss : “We are measuring downforce with our sensors and pressure tabs, and it's saying to us that we have 70 points more downforce in a particular corner in Melbourne than we had last year.*

*“But, on the lap time, it is not one kilometre per hour faster. It doesn't make any sense. So, where's the limitation?*

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... /10596354/

Most likely the downforce is not consistent enough to be fully used by the pilots. If you have 70 point more downforce (let's say on average), but it can suddenly drop of 70 points in the middle of the turn, then the added downforce is useless.

kinda reminds me of those haas cars back in 2020 where they would lose their DF mid corner as well... similar issue here?

[atanatizante]

...

Hi Vanja, I`d like to pose you some questions had you are willing to explain your thoughts about them:

1. The sidepod shape besides having an undercut also seems to have a spiral/funnel shape, or is it just me? What`s more advantageous in this area: to have a clean flow, a powerful vortex, or both?

2. The so-called lip of the sidepod air intake has a forward ramp. What`s the aim of this shape/structure?

3. On another side note: the above photo/render (a desktop wallpaper from the official team`s website) doesn't sport any diverting air slot at the sidepod air intake...

[atanatizante]

The W15 is a really weird beast, from the comments that toto & team members are saying, the sensor package on the car is measuring alot more downforce but it can't convert that to lap time, any idea what could cause that

full quote from toto
*Mercedes boss : “We are measuring downforce with our sensors and pressure tabs, and it's saying to us that we have 70 points more downforce in a particular corner in Melbourne than we had last year.*

*“But, on the lap time, it is not one kilometre per hour faster. It doesn't make any sense. So, where's the limitation?*

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... /10596354/

Most likely the downforce is not consistent enough to be fully used by the pilots. If you have 70 point more downforce (let's say on average), but it can suddenly drop of 70 points in the middle of the turn, then the added downforce is useless.

This!

As Vanja said before they didn't learn any lesson from the previous couple of years of the ground effect era!
They persist in chasing the peak downforce instead of useful downforce as Red Bull has been doing since the beginning and this year Ferrari is also doing this. And this is the proof they get on their sensors: continuous downforce level spikes throughout the entire corner!

In addition to this philosophy design flaw, they disregard that another pivotal key in this era is to have a wider setup window, something which the SF24 car does now. One possible question is having a new car philosophy they maybe didn't figure out how to set up the anti-squat/anti-dive suspensions in conjunction with the floor`s ride height and so forth ...

In conclusion, as other people who know this business are saying, all the data suggests that they are at least lacking in two areas: consistent/efficient downforce level and a wider setup window or in other words, how to preserve the tyre optimal operation window.

[Venturiation]

Here is the damage to the endplate of Lewis Hamilton's front wing, which unbalanced a very sensitive car like the W15, in the first 'hot' stint at Suzuka
more than delicate, better to say sensitive. To external factors (wind, temperatures, etc.) and internal ones (setup), which make the W15 truly unpredictable.

[ing.]

As Vanja said before they didn't learn any lesson from the previous couple of years of the ground effect era!
They persist in chasing the peak downforce instead of useful downforce as Red Bull has been doing since the beginning and this year Ferrari is also doing this. And this is the proof they get on their sensors: continuous downforce level spikes throughout the entire corner!

In addition to this philosophy design flaw, they disregard that another pivotal key in this era is to have a wider setup window, something which the SF24 car does now. One possible question is having a new car philosophy they maybe didn't figure out how to set up the anti-squat/anti-dive suspensions in conjunction with the floor`s ride height and so forth ...

In conclusion, as other people who know this business are saying, all the data suggests that they are at least lacking in two areas: consistent/efficient downforce level and a wider setup window or in other words, how to preserve the tyre optimal operation window.

Anti-dive—and by extension, anti-rise—is not a consideration in the middle of a bend… unless the drivers are braking for some reason.

[Vanja #66]

https://postimages.org/

Hi Vanja, I`d like to pose you some questions had you are willing to explain your thoughts about them:

1. The sidepod shape besides having an undercut also seems to have a spiral/funnel shape, or is it just me? What`s more advantageous in this area: to have a clean flow, a powerful vortex, or both?

2. The so-called lip of the sidepod air intake has a forward ramp. What`s the aim of this shape/structure?

3. On another side note: the above photo/render (a desktop wallpaper from the official team`s website) doesn't sport any diverting air slot at the sidepod air intake...

1) Yes, something like a funnel to increase pressurisation effect for more outwash with less local frontal surface area. There's no specific vorticity in that area worth mentioning now to the best of my knowledge.

2) In my view this is a way to make a hybrid solution that uses some functions of Ferrari s-duct but for cooling flow, mostly to clean up the boundary layer

[MattLightBlue]

The W15 is a really weird beast, from the comments that toto & team members are saying, the sensor package on the car is measuring alot more downforce but it can't convert that to lap time, any idea what could cause that

full quote from toto
*Mercedes boss : “We are measuring downforce with our sensors and pressure tabs, and it's saying to us that we have 70 points more downforce in a particular corner in Melbourne than we had last year.*

*“But, on the lap time, it is not one kilometre per hour faster. It doesn't make any sense. So, where's the limitation?*

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... /10596354/

Most likely the downforce is not consistent enough to be fully used by the pilots. If you have 70 point more downforce (let's say on average), but it can suddenly drop of 70 points in the middle of the turn, then the added downforce is useless.

This!

As Vanja said before they didn't learn any lesson from the previous couple of years of the ground effect era!
They persist in chasing the peak downforce instead of useful downforce as Red Bull has been doing since the beginning and this year Ferrari is also doing this. And this is the proof they get on their sensors: continuous downforce level spikes throughout the entire corner!

In addition to this philosophy design flaw, they disregard that another pivotal key in this era is to have a wider setup window, something which the SF24 car does now. One possible question is having a new car philosophy they maybe didn't figure out how to set up the anti-squat/anti-dive suspensions in conjunction with the floor`s ride height and so forth ...

In conclusion, as other people who know this business are saying, all the data suggests that they are at least lacking in two areas: consistent/efficient downforce level and a wider setup window or in other words, how to preserve the tyre optimal operation window.

I think they were aware of the setup/usable downforce issues since Bahrain tests. Mercedes was running very low during day 2 and 3, it could be something was not adding up to the data they expected. It seems to me too they didn’t learn anything good from the struggles of the last 2 seasons…

[Luscion]

Medium downforce wing for Merc for Shanghai

[Luscion]

[denyall]

They solved it!