2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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mendis
mendis
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Joined: 03 Jul 2022, 16:12

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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f1rules wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 17:52
youre kidding right? you mean to ruin it for them?
mendis wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 17:44
I hope Ferrari picks up James Key. He has been a good technical leader. Very unfortunate to see McLaren in this situation.
James Key has a great track record with Toro Rosso, Force India and Sauber teams where he really led teams that built highly competitive cars. McLaren is the first place where he couldn't succeed, similar to James Allison at Ferrari.

Bill
Bill
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Joined: 28 Apr 2018, 10:28

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Emag wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 18:09
FittingMechanics wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 17:57
Honestly I always think these top guys are overrated. One Newey will not make a killer car, he needs a big dedicated team for that. Obviously he may have better ideas and would be better in having an inherent feel for what works and what does not, and what the people under him should be doing.

I am not sure if Key was good in that regard or if Sanchez will be better.

I'd focus on hiring stronger middle/senior level engineers and not big name signings like Newey.

But at the end of the day, there has to be some accountability. For me, problems with brakes last year and minor fender issues this year showed the team was not led properly - these things should not happen as testing is very limited.
One person perhaps isn't enough to make a big change. You need to have a good team of people. But the TD does make the big decisions and he is the one deciding the main concept direction.

The people under him could be the best, but if they're following directives you can only get as far as the potential of the TD's concept gets you.

Besides, when you hire a big name, they are usually accompanied by a couple of other key people that follow them as well. It's just that only the big names make the headlines.

Aston Martin for example, did not only get Dan Fallows from RedBull. A number of other technical people followed him there too.
when Brawn joined Honda he didn't bring or hire a single engineer with him ,he just use what Honda had and went on to win champ as Brawn gp in 09 so those big names make difference.yes Honda did some contribution like running 5 windtunnel and one in japan and there sisterteam super aguri invented the double diffuser ,and some big budget but no one can denier that Brawn leadership brought glory.the term was not bad the change from Geoff who manage third in constructor to some japanese guy ruined it.

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DiogoBrand
73
Joined: 14 May 2015, 19:02
Location: Brazil

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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I started following F1 and McLaren more closely in 2015, hoping that the partnership with Honda would bring something good. Boy was I wrong.
Now with each year it feels more and more like the team is doomed to be forever a midfielder. I thought the return to Mercedes might help, it didn't, I thought the rule changes might help, they didn't, I thought the cost cap might help, it didn't, so now I'm thinking the new wind tunnel and simulator may help, but this time I'm not holding my breath.

It seems like, with the fact that at least Zak was able to turn the grey Ron Dennis McLaren into a more "charismatic" and colorful team, even though I think he did a good job with it, it never feels like it will become anything beyond that anymore.

Bill
Bill
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Joined: 28 Apr 2018, 10:28

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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when Mclaren was with Honda they was immense pressure to win or the pu program will be canned that what big manufactures bring.today mac seem content trundling around no big ambitions

CjC
CjC
11
Joined: 03 Jul 2012, 20:13

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Hmmm
Not so sure about this management structure. I’m not saying I don’t have confidence in the guys themselves but I thought Brown and Seidl dismantled the ‘matrix’ management of old and created a clear line of sight to the chiefs. Now it looks like Mclaren are reverting back to the same type management system that created the 2013 and 2014 cars etc… :roll:
Just a fan's point of view

McL-H
McL-H
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Joined: 17 May 2016, 16:18

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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I feel sorry for James Key. But in the end this sport is ruthless and when performance indicators are not met, you need to go. It’s like that within any team. But don’t be mistaken. Firing James Key and hiring Sanchez is not the solution to all our problems. Key alone is not the cause. There are many people working underneath him that are not replaced. Any lack of skill or knowledge transfers over to Sanchez.

Let’s not forget our aero package has been awful for many years now. Suffering a lot from drag. This was before Key and during Key. But Key is not our lead aerodynamicist.

kfrantzios
kfrantzios
46
Joined: 11 Mar 2017, 15:19
Location: Greece

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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I am very happy with this. Since Key joined the team the cars performance keeps deteriorating. That 3rd place came with Pat Fry's concept. I will not miss him. I don't think there is a future for him in F1.
Stella is an engineer. Zack is really involved and sometimes he overshadowed Seidl. In my opinion Zack will handle the politics and Stella will be focused more on the technical side of things. Like a super TD.

NAPI10
NAPI10
13
Joined: 23 Feb 2012, 19:08

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Is this the right time(starting of the season) to fire James Key?
It means Mclr has given up on 23 plus depending on who will join and when will also impact next season.

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organic
1049
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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NAPI10 wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 20:18
Is this the right time(starting of the season) to fire James Key?
It means Mclr has given up on 23 plus depending on who will join and when will also impact next season.
Well the new tunnel is being calibrated, the new simulator will be ready soon.. imo it's a good time to have a fresh slate such that you don't begin down the wrong path with the new resources

FittingMechanics
FittingMechanics
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Joined: 19 Feb 2019, 12:10

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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So reading this correctly, Key is fired with immediate effect (not a big statement of belief in Baku upgrade) and Sanchez is joining on January 1st of 2024. So effectively he will be working on 2025 car at the earliest?

Mclarenfanboy
Mclarenfanboy
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Joined: 14 Feb 2022, 19:53

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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So, lost 2023, and as things stand , lost 2024 season also, would not believe Zak Brown if he says that fish live in the water, I am sure he will stay, Mclaren has maybe a problem with ownership, after all the turbulent years there are three powers in the board, Bahranians, Americans and Saudis, who knows how that works, and how effective is the board. Zak is selling them bedtime stories. ;-). Problems are not new, and they are deep, Key is just the tip of an iceberg. Can t see Lando longterm there, It would be a career suicide.

CjC
CjC
11
Joined: 03 Jul 2012, 20:13

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Yep, there will be more Lando Norrises in F2 and 3 for Mclaren to choose from👍🏻
Just a fan's point of view

ScottR267
ScottR267
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Joined: 27 Dec 2018, 22:27

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Whilst time will tell if the structural changes improve matters and propel the team forward, I think it was evident to see that something had to change.

Whilst Key going is the tip of the iceberg, McLaren are still on a recruitment drive for further engineers which hopefully will join over the next year or so which will also assist in moving the team forwards

Perhaps some Ferrari engineers will join with Sanchez coming back?

Espresso
Espresso
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Joined: 13 Dec 2017, 15:03

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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McL-H wrote:
23 Mar 2023, 19:48
I feel sorry for James Key. But in the end this sport is ruthless and when performance indicators are not met, you need to go. It’s like that within any team. But don’t be mistaken. Firing James Key and hiring Sanchez is not the solution to all our problems. Key alone is not the cause. There are many people working underneath him that are not replaced. Any lack of skill or knowledge transfers over to Sanchez.

Let’s not forget our aero package has been awful for many years now. Suffering a lot from drag. This was before Key and during Key. But Key is not our lead aerodynamicist.
... :wtf: ...and the next one bites the dust...
James Key wasn´t the problem, I agree with that. He was just next in line trying to change the ´McLaren´ culture....and failed.
The core team has to be shaken up and changed. A fresh wind and a different attitude. They need a very strong fresh captain and new skeleton crew to make the change. And that ain´t easy.

Similar problem can be seen at AT. Franz also shook them up this year.
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geogate
geogate
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Joined: 29 Nov 2014, 02:25

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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this smacks of pressure from the board rather than a considered thought through plan, i am sorry to say