2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

[Wouter]

The myth of Lewis is "work togethr", "clean" driver should have ended long back. He was the only driver in the last decade and half that has gotten involved in incidents more than anyone else at the front of the field, courtesy of all those front running cars. If he would have started his career in the mid pack, his career would have ended long back. Like I have said it many times, with those dominant cars and without any pressure, he always started ahead and stayed ahead, which somehow masked his shortcomings.

https://ibb.co/cNZg6RN

26 DNF for Max in 7 years, mostly because the Renault PU and other mechanical failures.

And Lewis 24 DNF. How many PU and mechanical failures?

[MartijnA3]

Please break down those retirements and see how few were Max's fault.

I suggest that you do this, since you do not believe the presented photo.

Why do you assume I don't believe the number of DNFs? Just by posting it, it suggests Max made more of a mess of it than Lewis did in the same timeframe, or did I read that wrong?

[Schuttelberg]

Posted my honest view of the episode but post incident reactions are the usual Hamilton drama and playing the victim card. He is no saint and just because Verstappen says it as it is, most people fall for the polarisation. Lewis should look in the mirror when speaking of precedents and dangers considering the speed of the Silverstone accident compare to the one at Monza.

[jjn9128]

Perhaps we should remember the sage words uttered by Max's fan after Silverstone: the stewards found him guilty, move on.

Perhaps that way we can avoid a 100 page thread.

He said on page 96 . I said on the discord that the driver61 analysis on youtube was pretty even handed - but apparently the subtext is that he thought it was Max's fault but doesn't want to alienate the Verstappen fans. It's so dumb. I say ban 'em both. Race was so much better without them, 2 McLarens, 2 Ferrari's, a Merc and a Red Bull all fighting for 1st with an Alpine and Aston not far behind.

[dans79]

I said on the discord that the driver61 analysis on youtube was pretty even handed - but apparently the subtext is that he thought it was Max's fault but doesn't want to alienate the Verstappen fans. It's so dumb.

wait what? Did i miss something, where did driver61 say or imply that?

[langedweil]

The blasphemy that either of those was intentional is just that, blasphemy. It's more to do with 'he's not getting past me' and that's competition, not malice.

Most clearcut quote of the thread, it's exactly that.
Everything will be tactical from now on, and balls will be shown at every race from both sides .. I thought we were craving for just that.

[ringo]

The rules dont nees to change. The other drivers are doing just fine.
Hamilton had no issues dueling with any other driver on track for over 14 years now.
It's not the first he is duelling an at least equally fast car.
If Max changes his mentality then we will magically see the end of these type of incidents.
He just need to understand when he is outcrafted and fall in line to try again.

Same at Silverstone. Hamilton sold him a dummy beautifully. And again he was angered.

He just lacks to plethora of racing tools that some of the greats do. Max's main skill set is driving fast and playing chicken till the other guy bails out.

This is my last post in this thread. See you all in Russia for another crashtactic weekend!
This time we will see Max blocking Lewis in qualy!

[basti313]

The rules dont nees to change. The other drivers are doing just fine.
Hamilton had no issues dueling with any other driver on track for over 14 years now.
It's not the first he is duelling an at least equally fast car.

Wait a second...this Lewis who was the poor and constant victim against Nando, Massa or Rosberg? Yes, he has a good record of not crashing into his opponents who are always to blame.

[MartijnA3]

Hamilton had no issues dueling with any other driver on track for over 14 years now.

Good joke!

[diffuser]

I don't know why some people can't grasp the concept that you have to be alongside your competitor at the right time to be entitled to space.

Well, Silverstone moved the goalposts on that one at least .. despite the 10s penalty.

Yea, The stewards reasoning/explanation in silverstone was crap imo. A driver doesn't have to hit the apex, and Max had plenty of room to his left.

What they should have said imo, is that they didn't think Lewis did enough to avoid the collision or something similar. That would have lead to a lot less controversy.

Yeah, I didn't understands Silverstone for me it was cut and dry. Hamilton took away the racing line (which he is allowed to do) but there was still space on the outside for max to go. Max not wanting to take that line, cause it was slower, isn't Hamilton's problem. Max should have take that line cause Hamilton, being on the inside, took away the other line.

Here it is different, it all comes down to when is it Lewis's corner?

I don't understand Max's thinking here. If the accident doesn't happen in turn 1, In what situation does Max come out with a better line out turn 2? Hamilton, being on the outside, is always gonna straighten the car first, therefore, getting on the throttle first. Plus he next to Lewis and doesn't make use of the tow. Maybe Max was gonna squeeze Lewis off the track in turn 2?

[Schuttelberg]

The blasphemy that either of those was intentional is just that, blasphemy. It's more to do with 'he's not getting past me' and that's competition, not malice.

Most clearcut quote of the thread, it's exactly that.
Everything will be tactical from now on, and balls will be shown at every race from both sides .. I thought we were craving for just that.

Perez and Bottas should be kicking themselves for not being in the fight enough. I can remember a fair few seasons where two titans have been going hammer and tongs at one another and a third has nicked the title.

[Marty_Y]

Max has zero race craft.

Maybe he should have done more time in single seaters or in the midfield before being elevated to redbull.

.
Thats why Max had no penalty points for a long long time and is leading the championchip.

Just like your hero, he also had no penalty points for a ...... oh, wait, and is leading the championship ..... oh, wait.

Licence point end of the 2020 saison.

https://i.gyazo.com/821a04ddec20dbf9cca ... 7e7035.png

It's almost irrelevant posting that because for the whole of that season he rarely seen wheel to wheel action, the W11 was so much faster he never got near it, Ferrari were constantly behind and his teammate regularly qualified several places back, so he was alone with no one to crash into.

His problem has always been when another car is equal he struggles to overtake cleanly, a good example is the amount of collisions he had with Daniel Ricciardo when they were teammates and had equal machinery.

A lot of the license points Hamilton had were for things like entering the pit lane when it was closed and practice starts in the wrong place, so are not a reflection on his racing etiquette.

I'll agree Max is leading the championship, but only by 5 points he got for a race that never happened. If he had better racecraft he could be leading by considerably more.

[adrianjordan]

The myth of Lewis is "work togethr", "clean" driver should have ended long back. He was the only driver in the last decade and half that has gotten involved in incidents more than anyone else at the front of the field, courtesy of all those front running cars. If he would have started his career in the mid pack, his career would have ended long back. Like I have said it many times, with those dominant cars and without any pressure, he always started ahead and stayed ahead, which somehow masked his shortcomings.

https://ibb.co/cNZg6RN

https://youtu.be/KR48Q5U0AGA

Nether of those videos proves anything. The majority of Max's DNF's were mechanical, as were Hamilton's.

As for the video showing Hamilton's crashes....I didn't watch past 2009 as most seemed to be in practice sessions or in appalling conditions.

[adrianjordan]

I've got a great solution. For the rest of the season Max and Lewis drive the Haas cars....

[El Scorchio]

I've got a great solution. For the rest of the season Max and Lewis drive the Haas cars....

Actually, can you then imagine Schumacher and Mazepin in the Mercedes and the Red Bull? probably be worse!