2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

[diffuser]

The rules dont nees to change. The other drivers are doing just fine.
Hamilton had no issues dueling with any other driver on track for over 14 years now.
It's not the first he is duelling an at least equally fast car.
If Max changes his mentality then we will magically see the end of these type of incidents.
He just need to understand when he is outcrafted and fall in line to try again.

Same at Silverstone. Hamilton sold him a dummy beautifully. And again he was angered.

He just lacks to plethora of racing tools that some of the greats do. Max's main skill set is driving fast and playing chicken till the other guy bails out.

This is my last post in this thread. See you all in Russia for another crashtactic weekend!
This time we will see Max blocking Lewis in qualy!

very well said, sir!!

Hamilton only has won 4 races this season. Max has 7, a whopping total of 3 more wins.
Yet, Hamilton is only 5 points behind him right now.

if i'm not mistaken, the most of the coming GP's will favor RBR less than the past GP's did.
AND, it's likely Max is going to take a engine penalty for Sochi. Now i am not sure whether Lewis HAS to too,
but i would be inclined to believe he can postpone it, and go for the win. Max might still make the podium,
i think 2nd would be just a bit too much with an engine penalty, though not impossible.
So if Lewis grabs the win, and Max 2nd, and neither gets a fastest lap, then they'd be on equal points in the championship. If Max finishes 3rd and Lewis 1st, then lewis will be in front again.

I think this will go down to the wire in Abu Dhabi.

Think 2nd is wishful thinking at Sochi if you're starting from the back. You'd need help like a safety car.

[diffuser]

Next time Verstappen causes a dangerous collision a race ban for three races will put him on the ground..

Like he's the dirty one...

You have the license points for that and he has all but 2 of his points. Long way to go before he misses a race.

[toraabe]

Next time Verstappen causes a dangerous collision a race ban for three races will put him on the ground..

Like he's the dirty one...

You have the license points for that and he has all but 2 of his points. Long way to go before he misses a race.

Hey. Without the halo Lewis would have been dead. That is not funny at all. Although he has few points his actions in duels are sometimes above acceptance. https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/94129/ve ... k=onderaan

[RZS10]

Keep in mind that the results of the drivers' actions aren't supposed to play a role in the decision making of the stewards.

[diffuser]

Like he's the dirty one...

You have the license points for that and he has all but 2 of his points. Long way to go before he misses a race.

Hey. Without the halo Lewis would have been dead. That is not funny at all. Although he has few points his actions in duels are sometimes above acceptance. https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/94129/ve ... k=onderaan

The result of the impact and severity of injuries doesn't factor in on the penalty. It's strictly on what is allowed and what isn't.

[Ryar]

Like he's the dirty one...

You have the license points for that and he has all but 2 of his points. Long way to go before he misses a race.

Hey. Without the halo Lewis would have been dead. That is not funny at all. Although he has few points his actions in duels are sometimes above acceptance. https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/94129/ve ... k=onderaan

Max would have suffered similar fate in Silverstone, if not for the safety of the car. That warrants multiple race bans for Lewis, according to your logic.

[PlatinumZealot]

Just like to point out that according to StatsF1, Max and Lewis have had the following retirements

Retirements ----- Max - 29 Lewis - 27

Accidents/Collisions ---- Max - 13 ----- Lewis - 12

Races ----- Max - 136 ----- Lewis - 280

Retirement % ----- Max - 21% ----- Lewis - 9%

Accident % ----- Max - 9% ----- Lewis - 4%


So after actually looking at the real stats, it turns out Max has retired far more than Lewis when it comes to accidents. Lewis has less than 1 per season on average, Max has 2 per season on average.

Interesting.

I think a fairer comparison would be Hamilton’s first 136 races where he and Verstappen had more similarly competitive cars.

Going by Wikipiedia, here are retirements from both drivers coming from either collisions or running off track:

Max Verstappen

2015
Monaco: collision with Grosjean (Vers penalized)
Silverstone: Beaching on gravel

2016
Moncaco: collision (barrier)

2017:
Spain: collission with Kimi and Bottas
Austria: Collision with Kyvat Fernando and Max (Kyvat penalized)
Singapore: Collision with Vettel and Kimi

2018
Azerbaijan: Collision with Ricciardo

2019
Belgium: Collision with Perez
Japan: Collision with Leclerc

2020
Tuscan: Collision with Gasly, Kimi and Grosjean
Sakhir: Barrier

2021
Silverstone: Collision with Lewis. Lewis penalized
Italy: Collision with Lewis. Verstappen penalized


Lewis Hamilton
2007
China: Beached

2008
Canada: Collision with Raikonnen in pitlane. Hamilton 10 grid penalty next race

2009
Belgium: Collision with Alguersuari (domino from Grosjean)

2010
Italy: Collision with Massa
Singapore: Collision with Webber

2011
Canada: Collision with Button
Belgium: Collision with Kamui.

2012
Belgium: Collision with Grosjean. Grosjean race ban.
Brazil: Collision with Hülkenberg

2013
Japan: Collision with Webber

2014
Belgium: Collision with Rosberg

2016
Spain: Collision with Rosberg

2021
Italy: Collision with Verstappen. Verstappen penalized.

Hamilton's collisions are fairly clean ones. Usually cases of being unsighted by others - Jenson, Kamui, Webber in Singapore, Hulkenburg Brazil.. Or benign silliness - Pitlane crash in Canada, Beached in China. Beligum Crash from Grosjean.
Things actually got nastier when he had a leading car!

So overall, Lewis is an extremely clean driver when it comes to accidents.

[Roo]

You have the license points for that and he has all but 2 of his points. Long way to go before he misses a race.

Hey. Without the halo Lewis would have been dead. That is not funny at all. Although he has few points his actions in duels are sometimes above acceptance. https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/94129/ve ... k=onderaan

Max would have suffered similar fate in Silverstone, if not for the safety of the car. That warrants multiple race bans for Lewis, according to your logic.

Not really, Max brushed gravel and hit barriers that obsorb impact.

[dtro]

Can't believe people are still rehashing this three days after the race. If it was any other two drivers it would have been investigated in a similar manner, and the driver found more at fault would have been penalized. Fairly certain a certain Frenchman nearly killed a quarter of the grid in Spa 2012 and given a race ban considering half of that season was a nightmare for him. However, that was after falling into a pattern so much so we called him Crashjean.

Point being, this wasn't deemed a racing incident, much like the crash in Silverstone where Hamilton was penalized. In either incident do I think there as malice aforethought, or some sort of intention to maim or injure another driver, no. Have I seen F1 cars do barrel rolls, explode, get flipped in collisions, have various components fail causing collisions, yes. It's unfortunate that F1 cars are as wide as busses and it seems like there are too few areas cars can actually go side by side on track nowadays. It's unfortunate that Max was launched over Lewis' noggin and most likely caused some injury. It's equally unfortunate that politickin F1 teams dramatize every cough and sneeze of their drivers, or other drivers. My driver's cough and sneeze is more serious than yours. Boo hoo. They're all millionaires in a sport for the rich, with all the amenities including but not limited to better medical care, physical therapy and nutrition.

TLDR: Max wasn't trying to kill Lewis. Lewis wasn't trying to kill Max. They're all out of touch with reality and we should have better things to do with our time than be at each other's throats when two boys try to mount each other in broad daylight.

[Unf]

TLDR: Max wasn't trying to kill Lewis. Lewis wasn't trying to kill Max. They're all out of touch with reality and we should have better things to do with our time than be at each other's throats when two boys try to mount each other in broad daylight.

Problem is that no one did antyhing to avoid this crush, but penalty has been given for just one of them.

[dans79]

TLDR: Max wasn't trying to kill Lewis. Lewis wasn't trying to kill Max. They're all out of touch with reality and we should have better things to do with our time than be at each other's throats when two boys try to mount each other in broad daylight.

Problem is that no one did antyhing to avoid this crush, but penalty has been given for just one of them.

That's how the penalty system works as outlined in the rules.

If the stewards feel the drivers are equally to blame then neither will get a penalty and it will be labeled a racing incident. If the stewards feel one driver is more to blame, then that driver will be given a penalty.

[Ryar]

Hey. Without the halo Lewis would have been dead. That is not funny at all. Although he has few points his actions in duels are sometimes above acceptance. https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/94129/ve ... k=onderaan

Max would have suffered similar fate in Silverstone, if not for the safety of the car. That warrants multiple race bans for Lewis, according to your logic.

Not really, Max brushed gravel and hit barriers that obsorb impact.

So did Halo and everything was fine. What's the big deal?

There is always a way to neutralize arguments using the other person's logic that can easily work other way round. I am happy F1 has made so much improvement to secure the drivers.

[Unf]

That's how the penalty system works as outlined in the rules.

If the stewards feel the drivers are equally to blame then neither will get a penalty and it will be labeled a racing incident. If the stewards feel one driver is more to blame, then that driver will be given a penalty.

True. Just saying that this is strange, when stewards gives penalty for one driver when both of them did wrong.

[sosic2121]

Like he's the dirty one...

You have the license points for that and he has all but 2 of his points. Long way to go before he misses a race.

Hey. Without the halo Lewis would have been dead. That is not funny at all. Although he has few points his actions in duels are sometimes above acceptance. https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/94129/ve ... k=onderaan

Well, he felt fine enough to try to free his car and continue racing while max still on top of him.
Or perhaps he was trying to lower him gently...

[Andres125sx]

Sorry I´m too late, but I´m confused... I´ve just read Stewarts decision based on...

the Stewards observed that Car 33 was not at all alongside Car 44 until significantly into the entry into Turn 1

Did they change the rules stating what is considered alongside? I was assuming it was, as stated in the rules, when the front axle reach... now I´m in a doubt if it was the rear axle or the cockpit, but anycase that was certainly the case here as Max front wheel was even past the cockpit so... did they change this definition or I´m missing something?

Or maybe they´re saying that must be the case before the corner entry? In that case racing is done, only boring DRS overtakes allowed!


Just to clarify, I don´t care about who receives the penalty, I´m not a fan of any of them, I like Lewis driving and Max driving, and I dislike both out of the car. Both are poor drivers compared to Alonso btw (just kidding to show I´m far from a fan of any of them )