2021 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 10 - 12

[Just_a_fan]

or.... if you do it in cold blood and after crash you are going to play the innocent.

And this language is the problem. "Cold blood". I mean, really?

[ringo]

Yes that's a pretty good example of what Max could have done in that situation. Good post.

He was also more ahead into the corner and had more "rights".

[ispano6]

I am more and more convinced the title winner will be decided by stewards decisions, harder tires adoptins, engine raplacement for verstappen because of previous accidentd and the two wins which were lost by verstappen because of other accidents and tire failure..... too few races are left and the two contenders will crash again or make one two with small point difference

You forgot to mention bendy wings complaint and taking away RedBull's pitstop advantage, both instigated by Mercedes...

[e30ernest]

I am more and more convinced the title winner will be decided by stewards decisions, harder tires adoptins, engine raplacement for verstappen because of previous accidentd and the two wins which were lost by verstappen because of other accidents and tire failure..... too few races are left and the two contenders will crash again or make one two with small point difference

You forgot to mention bendy wings complaint and taking away RedBull's pitstop advantage, both instigated by Mercedes...

The bendy wing complaint was fair IMO and more should have been looked into for the front wings. I will give that the pitstop tech shouldn't have been an issue (when was the last time we had an unsafe release from RB?).

I don't make a big deal out of either given that all teams do this to their competitors throughout the year. RB for example went after Merc's party mode last year.

[ispano6]

The bendy wing complaint was fair IMO and more should have been looked into for the front wings. I will give that the pitstop tech shouldn't have been an issue (when was the last time we had an unsafe release from RB?).

I don't make a big deal out of either given that all teams do this to their competitors throughout the year. RB for example went after Merc's party mode last year.

If the rear wings passed static tests and weren't unsafe, it should have been deemed legal.
Yes, they should pursue front wings, oscillating T-Wings, supercooled plenums and the like as a matter of principle since Mercedes has lobbied for changes that have benefitted them. I did notice also that team principals of Mercedes powered teams fist bumping drivers and crew from other Mercedes powered teams, most notably Toto during the red flag at Silverstone with the Mclaren crew. Anyhow, here we are and thanks to those efforts RedBull have been pulled back to within Mercedes reach and MB leading the constructors championship with DNF's and engine damage caused to both Max and Perez due to incidents with the Mercedes cars. It hasn't been a clean championship at all, but this us what to expect from two powerhouses. A welcome change to the previous seasons.

[flmkane]

You forgot to mention bendy wings complaint and taking away RedBull's pitstop advantage, both instigated by Mercedes...

The bendy wing complaint was fair IMO and more should have been looked into for the front wings. I will give that the pitstop tech shouldn't have been an issue (when was the last time we had an unsafe release from RB?).

I don't make a big deal out of either given that all teams do this to their competitors throughout the year. RB for example went after Merc's party mode last year.

If the rear wings passed static tests and weren't unsafe, it should have been deemed legal.
Yes, they should pursue front wings, oscillating T-Wings, supercooled plenums and the like as a matter of principle since Mercedes has lobbied for changes that have benefitted them. I did notice also that team principals of Mercedes powered teams fist bumping drivers and crew from other Mercedes powered teams, most notably Toto during the red flag at Silverstone with the Mclaren crew. Anyhow, here we are and thanks to those efforts RedBull have been pulled back to within Mercedes reach and them leading the constructors championship with DNF's and engine damage caused to both Max and Perez due to incidents with the Mercedes cars. It's been a clean championship at all, but thus us what to expect from two powerhouses. A welcome change to the previous seasons.

Question. Do you know why bendy wings can be banned mid season? Ie do you know why that rule was made in the first place?

[e30ernest]

If the rear wings passed static tests and weren't unsafe, it should have been deemed legal.

This has been argued to the point that it is worse than beating a dead horse. The rules allow for this so it is fair play.

Yes, they should pursue front wings, oscillating T-Wings, supercooled plenums and the like as a matter of principle since Mercedes has lobbied for changes that have benefitted them.

Yes, if these are deemed illegal, then technical directives should come out.

I did notice also that team principals of Mercedes powered teams fist bumping drivers and crew from other Mercedes powered teams, most notably Toto during the red flag at Silverstone with the Mclaren crew.

And why is this an issue? They are engine customers too. You can see some good will between Ferrari and the Ferrari-powered teams too. Back when RB was powered by Renault and were winning you'd see the same good will between them.

Anyhow, here we are and thanks to those efforts RedBull have been pulled back to within Mercedes reach and MB leading the constructors championship with DNF's and engine damage caused to both Max and Perez due to incidents with the Mercedes cars. It hasn't been a clean championship at all, but this us what to expect from two powerhouses. A welcome change to the previous seasons.

Yes in a tightly fought season like this, incidents are bound to happen. So far the engine penalties are more or less on par between Mercedes and Red Bull. Max will probably take one more and so will Lewis so if both take penalties, it's still par for the course on those engine penalties.

Max' DNF on Azerbaijan was negated by Lewis' Butterfinger but yeah the Silverstone crash as a big one.

[Andres125sx]

Max did nothing wrong?
He crashed into another car, quite seriously, he went for a gap that wasn't there and should have backed off.

Will people stop making excuses.

Will people learn to discuss instead of assuming anyone who disagree is wrong and making excuses?

There will never be a gap if the driver in front go from kerb to kerb, if the one overtaking must be parallel to earn the space there will be almost zero overtakes in current F1

[Wouter]

Many comments under the video on YT.

[PlatinumZealot]

The video is not that accurate, but At 1:22 in the video is when Max should have yielded. It was a bit wishfull thinking because no championship contender in their right mind will let through their rival here. Not schumi, not Prost, not Nico, Not Vettel... No one really.

[Wouter]

https://www.racefans.net/2021/09/15/dri ... wO_f9Dqt2A

Drivers need to be discouraged from taking out rivals – Wolff

Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff says Formula 1 drivers need to be discouraged from deliberately tangling with rivals to prevent them scoring points.

He made his remarks in the wake of Sunday’s collision between Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen, which put both drivers out of the race. Wolff originally described the move as a “tactical foul” on Verstappen’s part after he had fallen behind Hamilton during their pit stops.

“For me what we need to avoid in the future is taking each out tactically because you know you’ve lost the position,” said Wolff.

Speaking before the verdict was announced, Wolff said: “Tactical fouls in order to make sure that the other guy doesn’t win is something which you need to get under control.”

“How, I have no idea,” he added.

Does Toto accuse Max of intentionally knocking Lewis out? If that's true, if he said that, he should be ashamed of himself.

[El Scorchio]

https://www.racefans.net/2021/09/15/dri ... wO_f9Dqt2A

Drivers need to be discouraged from taking out rivals – Wolff

Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff says Formula 1 drivers need to be discouraged from deliberately tangling with rivals to prevent them scoring points.

He made his remarks in the wake of Sunday’s collision between Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen, which put both drivers out of the race. Wolff originally described the move as a “tactical foul” on Verstappen’s part after he had fallen behind Hamilton during their pit stops.

“For me what we need to avoid in the future is taking each out tactically because you know you’ve lost the position,” said Wolff.

Speaking before the verdict was announced, Wolff said: “Tactical fouls in order to make sure that the other guy doesn’t win is something which you need to get under control.”

“How, I have no idea,” he added.

Does Toto accuse Max of intentionally knocking Lewis out? If that's true, if he said that, he should be ashamed of himself.

As should Horner and Marko from Silverstone then, I presume.

[Ryar]

https://www.racefans.net/2021/09/15/dri ... wO_f9Dqt2A

Drivers need to be discouraged from taking out rivals – Wolff

Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff says Formula 1 drivers need to be discouraged from deliberately tangling with rivals to prevent them scoring points.

He made his remarks in the wake of Sunday’s collision between Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen, which put both drivers out of the race. Wolff originally described the move as a “tactical foul” on Verstappen’s part after he had fallen behind Hamilton during their pit stops.

“For me what we need to avoid in the future is taking each out tactically because you know you’ve lost the position,” said Wolff.

Speaking before the verdict was announced, Wolff said: “Tactical fouls in order to make sure that the other guy doesn’t win is something which you need to get under control.”

“How, I have no idea,” he added.

Does Toto accuse Max of intentionally knocking Lewis out? If that's true, if he said that, he should be ashamed of himself.

It simply shows the frustration boiling over in the Mercedes camp. Usually restraint Toto losing sense and talking such things simply shows the impact of pressure.

[_cerber1]

You forgot to mention bendy wings complaint and taking away RedBull's pitstop advantage, both instigated by Mercedes...

May I remind you who lobbied for the ban on the qualifying regime? Or maybe you want to talk about the 2021 regulation that robbed Mercedes of a decent level of downforce.

[RZS10]

https://www.racefans.net/2021/09/15/dri ... wO_f9Dqt2A

Drivers need to be discouraged from taking out rivals – Wolff

Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff says Formula 1 drivers need to be discouraged from deliberately tangling with rivals to prevent them scoring points.

He made his remarks in the wake of Sunday’s collision between Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen, which put both drivers out of the race. Wolff originally described the move as a “tactical foul” on Verstappen’s part after he had fallen behind Hamilton during their pit stops.

“For me what we need to avoid in the future is taking each out tactically because you know you’ve lost the position,” said Wolff.

Speaking before the verdict was announced, Wolff said: “Tactical fouls in order to make sure that the other guy doesn’t win is something which you need to get under control.”

“How, I have no idea,” he added.

Does Toto accuse Max of intentionally knocking Lewis out? If that's true, if he said that, he should be ashamed of himself.

Alternatively one could also include the remainder of the quote by Wolff which softens what he said and puts it into the full context (and is in that article) - but that wouldn't paint him in such a bad light and we can't have that here now, can we?

However Wolff conceded he was more inclined to see the contact as deliberate because his sympathies lay with his own driver.

“I didn’t say that [Verstappen] was completely to blame or an absolute judgement on the incident,” said Wolff. “What I said is that one could see it as tactical foul with the bias that each of us needs to just acknowledge. We don’t want to have situations in the future where one loses the position and the only way of stopping the other one scoring is just by taking him out.

“Both of them need to leave space for each other, race each other hard, but avoid accidents. Because it was good fun until now, but we have seen a Halo that saved [Hamilton’s] life and Max had this heavy impact in Silverstone and we don’t want to come to a situation to intervene when somebody gets really hurt.”

I really don't understand the need to constantly sh*t on the "opposing" team especially when it's done with out of context or incomplete quotes from clickbait articles.

edit: to add to this - this ain't personal or just about you - but there's an endless back and forth in all the threads about who said this and who did that and it doesn't really add anything. It's just there to reinforce the negative feelings some likeminded users here have for certain individuals.