2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

[PlatinumZealot]

I see just the 2 Honda teams in the speed traps and more so I didn`t see HAM in the top 6 in the most important :

http://postimg.cc/LY54vZy6

'Stellar clinical'-Horners statements become more and more ridicolous checking these stats.

These speed trap numbers are utterly meaningless. Gasly was literally inches behind alonso when crossing speed trap line. You cant just take them at face value. Reality is hamilton was gaining 7-8 tenths up the hill and he started to gain that time troughout entire straight, not just the very end. Quite obviously he had a chunk more power compared to max.

Sector 2 speed trap is not really worth mentioning as its a very short straight and if you have a good exit it will show in higher speed. Perez fit soft tyres at the end was obviously very fast trough that section.

He was gaining 2 to 3 tenths up the hill not 8 tenths.

[AeroDynamic]

If I was merc, I would be showing the video of max forcing Lewis off again and again and again. It’s a different rule for max to everyone else. How can anyone be punished for not leaving room on the outside anymore? Max ran himself off the road in running Hamilton off the road. I don’t understand what the rules are anymore.

surely your memory is not that short, Hamilton did that to Verstappen in Bahrain earlier this same year, and you could clearly see onboard Lewis closing the steering angle despite Verstappen being right alongside, people said racing incident, and Verstappen despite going past had to give the place back an ended up in 2nd. That and the Silverston racing incident, which after seeing the trajectory analysis again and again and again just feels like a huge pile of leniency for the sake of leniency from the FIA.

All of this about absolutely nothing. Verstappen has got penalties for his driving in Monza as well. That also happened.

He ran max wide but he didn’t lose control of his car by going way off track, forcing another driver way off with him.

[dans79]

Give what place back? Hamilton hadn't fully passed Verstappen by then

https://imgur.com/a/JgakMUx

At this point, MV is the one doing the passing by braking later than his rival, and does so by running both off the track. He also keeps running his rival even wider, after they're both off the track for some reason.

So he gains a lasting advantage (which is position), by driving both off the track. Correct decision is to ask his team to hand the place back immediately, or receive a 5 second time penalty.

Yea, and he gained a lasting advantage by pushing his competitor off the track, no no matter what way you slice it, max should have been penalized.

[bonjon1979]

If I was merc, I would be showing the video of max forcing Lewis off again and again and again. It’s a different rule for max to everyone else. How can anyone be punished for not leaving room on the outside anymore? Max ran himself off the road in running Hamilton off the road. I don’t understand what the rules are anymore.

surely your memory is not that short, Hamilton did that to Verstappen in Bahrain earlier this same year, and you could clearly see onboard Lewis closing the steering angle despite Verstappen being right alongside, people said racing incident, and Verstappen despite going past had to give the place back an ended up in 2nd. That and the Silverston racing incident, which after seeing the trajectory analysis again and again and again just feels like a huge pile of leniency for the sake of leniency from the FIA.

All of this about absolutely nothing. Verstappen has got penalties for his driving in Monza as well. That also happened.

Hamilton didn’t go off track. Look at the image above. Hamilton is clearly ahead. In Bahrain, max was behind until he flew off track on the outside. Hamilton is clearly ahead, In the above image, bow the rules are that the car inside is allowed to run himself and the person outside entirely off track.

[AeroDynamic]

Give what place back? Hamilton hadn't fully passed Verstappen by then

https://imgur.com/a/JgakMUx

At this point, MV is the one doing the passing by braking later than his rival, and does so by running both off the track. He also keeps running his rival even wider, after they're both off the track for some reason.

So he gains a lasting advantage (which is position), by driving both off the track. Correct decision is to ask his team to hand the place back immediately, or receive a 5 second time penalty.

Yea, and he gained a lasting advantage by pushing his competitor off the track, no no matter what way you slice it, max should have been penalized.

Yeah, he went off track himself in the process. That clearly means he lost control of his car and failed to make the corner. Hence it should have been an obvious order to hand the place to Hamilton. It doesn’t matter now because the right person won on merit, it would’ve been a disgrace if that had cost Hamilton a win.

But yet, I’m very concerned with what the sport is doing by saying that is ok. A lot of drivers will start going off track to force so,some else off. That is not racing. This is what happens when we lack gravel.

At some point the FIA need to go back and rethink all this nonsense since 2019. For me, racing was Russell vs Alonso at Austria. This other stuff since 2019 is not real racing.


They’re not even using the black flags enough. And in my opinion, the black flag is pretty meaningless if it isn’t a flag that carries over into future races like the penalty points do. Otherwise every driver has a “black flag card” to play every race. Which is enough to deny a rightful winner in a championship this close.

[Starkblood80]

If I was merc, I would be showing the video of max forcing Lewis off again and again and again. It’s a different rule for max to everyone else. How can anyone be punished for not leaving room on the outside anymore? Max ran himself off the road in running Hamilton off the road. I don’t understand what the rules are anymore.

surely your memory is not that short, Hamilton did that to Verstappen in Bahrain earlier this same year, and you could clearly see onboard Lewis closing the steering angle despite Verstappen being right alongside, people said racing incident, and Verstappen despite going past had to give the place back an ended up in 2nd. That and the Silverston racing incident, which after seeing the trajectory analysis again and again and again just feels like a huge pile of leniency for the sake of leniency from the FIA.

All of this about absolutely nothing. Verstappen has got penalties for his driving in Monza as well. That also happened.

The only real difference between here and silverstone is the fact Hamilton didn’t try and turn in on Verstappen, the incidents are almost identical otherwise. The only thing that seems to have saved max from
A penalty is Hamilton actively avoiding contact. If you thought Hamilton was in the wrong at silverstone then there’s no real defensive of Verstappen today.

[Juzh]

'Stellar clinical'-Horners statements become more and more ridicolous checking these stats.

These speed trap numbers are utterly meaningless. Gasly was literally inches behind alonso when crossing speed trap line. You cant just take them at face value. Reality is hamilton was gaining 7-8 tenths up the hill and he started to gain that time troughout entire straight, not just the very end. Quite obviously he had a chunk more power compared to max.

Sector 2 speed trap is not really worth mentioning as its a very short straight and if you have a good exit it will show in higher speed. Perez fit soft tyres at the end was obviously very fast trough that section.

He was gaining 2 to 3 tenths up the hill not 8 tenths.

With drs when coming from 1s back.

[dans79]

But yet, I’m very concerned with what the sport is doing by saying that is ok. A lot of drivers will start going off track to force so,some else off. That is not racing. This is what happens when we lack gravel.

Imo, it's what happens when the people in charge lack the intestinal fortitude, and integrity to do their job properly.

[search]

here is some interesting information on Hamilton's engine, which may explain parts of the performance boost:

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... n/6780713/

Quick summary in English on Twitter:

[piast9]

You know what? I just wonder if the grid penalties for ICE changes are worth anything. You get 10 places for the first additional ICE but then it is only 5 places. But imagine - if you changed the ICE each race getting 5 places drop you can run the engine much harder as it has to last only one race so if you are top team you are sure you'll claw those places back. Only limitation is the budget cap.

[nimoraca]

https://imgur.com/a/JgakMUx

At this point, MV is the one doing the passing by braking later than his rival, and does so by running both off the track. He also keeps running his rival even wider, after they're both off the track for some reason.

So he gains a lasting advantage (which is position), by driving both off the track. Correct decision is to ask his team to hand the place back immediately, or receive a 5 second time penalty.

Yea, and he gained a lasting advantage by pushing his competitor off the track, no no matter what way you slice it, max should have been penalized.

Yeah, he went off track himself in the process. That clearly means he lost control of his car and failed to make the corner. Hence it should have been an obvious order to hand the place to Hamilton. It doesn’t matter now because the right person won on merit, it would’ve been a disgrace if that had cost Hamilton a win.

But yet, I’m very concerned with what the sport is doing by saying that is ok. A lot of drivers will start going off track to force so,some else off. That is not racing. This is what happens when we lack gravel.

At some point the FIA need to go back and rethink all this nonsense since 2019. For me, racing was Russell vs Alonso at Austria. This other stuff since 2019 is not real racing.


They’re not even using the black flags enough. And in my opinion, the black flag is pretty meaningless if it isn’t a flag that carries over into future races like the penalty points do. Otherwise every driver has a “black flag card” to play every race. Which is enough to deny a rightful winner in a championship this close.

Unfortunately, id does matter, as Max would have been 3rd with a 5sec penalty (which was deserved).

[Magicsenna_41]

But yet, I’m very concerned with what the sport is doing by saying that is ok. A lot of drivers will start going off track to force so,some else off. That is not racing. This is what happens when we lack gravel.

Imo, it's what happens when the people in charge lack the intestinal fortitude, and integrity to do their job properly.

So the Stewards really took the 50k from Max and had a good Diner...

[Marty_Y]

here is some interesting information on Hamilton's engine, which may explain parts of the performance boost:

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... n/6780713/

Quick summary in English on Twitter:

Great work from Mercedes HPP.

If this race is anything to go by they've created another masterpiece, let's hope the power output can be sustained for the remaining races.

[politburo]

If I was merc, I would be showing the video of max forcing Lewis off again and again and again. It’s a different rule for max to everyone else. How can anyone be punished for not leaving room on the outside anymore? Max ran himself off the road in running Hamilton off the road. I don’t understand what the rules are anymore.

surely your memory is not that short, Hamilton did that to Verstappen in Bahrain earlier this same year, and you could clearly see onboard Lewis closing the steering angle despite Verstappen being right alongside, people said racing incident, and Verstappen despite going past had to give the place back an ended up in 2nd. That and the Silverston racing incident, which after seeing the trajectory analysis again and again and again just feels like a huge pile of leniency for the sake of leniency from the FIA.

All of this about absolutely nothing. Verstappen has got penalties for his driving in Monza as well. That also happened.

Hamilton didn’t go off track. Look at the image above. Hamilton is clearly ahead. In Bahrain, max was behind until he flew off track on the outside. Hamilton is clearly ahead, In the above image, bow the rules are that the car inside is allowed to run himself and the person outside entirely off track.

The rules simply say "crowding" of any kind is not allowed. What Hamilton did to Verstappen at Bahrain was crowding, like what Norris did to Perez or what Perez did to Leclerc in Austria. All crowding, all policed differently because = gravel trap.

[politburo]

here is some interesting information on Hamilton's engine, which may explain parts of the performance boost:

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... n/6780713/

Quick summary in English on Twitter:

Great work from Mercedes HPP.

If this race is anything to go by they've created another masterpiece, let's hope the power output can be sustained for the remaining races.

Quote sure that should go in the team thread.