2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[TimW]

Yes they can do that. Quite easily.

The hard part is doing that AND passing the test.

Edit: just for the record, I've seen it being done. I've held the prototypes for the fiber layup on the x29 wings. Torsional stiffness was different depending on the the direction of applied torque.

Went looking for it and indeed it is noticeable in france allready. You can see the gap increasing especially on the right side. Interestingly; the gap is increasing a lot also at the "fixed" point on the end plate. Not really a fixed support in that direction then.

That gap is opening indeed quite a bit

All this requires is a flexible main plane. Bending torsion coupling would not be needed (although it may be needed to do get an aerodynamic benefit out of it)

Passing the test would not be an issue at all, AFAIK the main plain is not being tested separately, only the total rear wing. The main plane could be made of rubber and it would still pass the rear wing deflection test (but with a rubber wing it would likely fail the DRS gap test....)

[seense]

I believe indeed the aft part of the main plane is not connected to the end plates and is flexible. Thats what Max was testing.

Maybe the flexible part underwent some plastic deformation which may contributed to hamiltons penalty.

[dxpetrov]

RB are going max downforce rear wing for car #33 in Qatar! Do they have a similar system now?

[El Scorchio]

RB are going max downforce rear wing for car #33 in Qatar! Do they have a similar system now?

The Aston wing looks similar in terms of that, and I'm no particular expert but the track layout looks like it requires a good amount of downforce. Happy to be corrected though.

[Gillian]

Isn't the track a lot like Bahrain?

[El Scorchio]

Isn't the track a lot like Bahrain?

Roughly in shape but it doesn't possess the long straights between turns 3-4 and 12-13 like Bahrain does.

[etusch]

I don't know how representetive this sample there but when I look motogp Ducati was good there because of power but Honda was in battle with best ducati there before mm injury. But ducati is not that bad at turns anymore, not as much as this year at the year I am talking about.

[NathanOlder]

I don't know how representetive this sample there but when I look motogp Ducati was good there because of power but Honda was in battle with best ducati there before mm injury. But ducati is not that bad at turns anymore, not as much as this year at the year I am talking about.

The bologna bullet has always gone well there, as its always been fast on the straights. So I guess if you look at MotoGP for reference, this track will suit cars with more straight line speed.

[Gillian]

Isn't the track a lot like Bahrain?

Roughly in shape but it doesn't possess the long straights between turns 3-4 and 12-13 like Bahrain does.

Ah yes that's true!

Its probably not worth sacrificing downforce for a gain on those straights. But I could be mistaken. Looks like an interesting track anyway and it will probably be pretty close between Mercedes and Red Bull.

[El Scorchio]

Isn't the track a lot like Bahrain?

Roughly in shape but it doesn't possess the long straights between turns 3-4 and 12-13 like Bahrain does.

Ah yes that's true!

Its probably not worth sacrificing downforce for a gain on those straights. But I could be mistaken. Looks like an interesting track anyway and it will probably be pretty close between Mercedes and Red Bull.

Likewise I'm not sure either! It wouldn't surprise me if they strapped on a bit but who knows. From the looks of the RBR and AM, they might have gone that way. Actually really looking forward to the race. New circuit and the unknown is always exciting.

[dxpetrov]

Whatever AM put is irelevantan. That car has a way less DF than RB. The only races RB16B was fitted with that rw are Monaco and Mexico. They tried it in Barcelona and Hungary, but switched to the standard, scooped one they used in Brasil. Let's see what happens...

[RGAEDA]

Yes they can do that. Quite easily.

The hard part is doing that AND passing the test.

Edit: just for the record, I've seen it being done. I've held the prototypes for the fiber layup on the x29 wings. Torsional stiffness was different depending on the the direction of applied torque.

Thank you. I guess other teams can and may already be doing this, but the question is if they are all doing it, to what extent each one of them is benefiting from it? Probably the big 3 might hold an advantage over others in this regard but reb bull going to FIA about this, to me at least, indicates that they are not gaining the sort of advantage Mercedes gains or of any kind. I know i'm reading too much into red bull's theory but the possibility of it happening is an intriguing one. Now that you mentioned about the laying patterns of fiber on the X-29 wing, i want to gain some knowledge, could you please point me to the artifacts if they are available for public viewing?

I'm afraid that they're not available publicly. My department head worked on that plane and he has samples in his office.

Edit: found some reading material though
https://aerospaceengineeringblog.com/ae ... mman-x-29/

Thank you.

[jellybone]

RB are going max downforce rear wing for car #33 in Qatar! Do they have a similar system now?

entirely speculation, but seeing as they state they "know" essentially what Merc is doing, and that they have not formally filed a complaint, then it would be entirely not surprising if they end up doing the same. All that aside, you have to hand it to Merc, the Empire stepped it up in a big way and found a lot more speed, cheating or not it's impressive. Looking back at the season RB threw away lots of points and would have had this done already if it wasn't for that. Looking forward to the next races

[Scalexf1]

Mercedes have a long history of understanding and development of wing stalling technology.
In the past it was the leader of fluid switch activated systems, front wing, rear wing etc.
Are we witnessing a return of something similar?
The fact that Hamilton is pulling or pushing on the wheel is perhaps a slight misdirection, as perhaps were witnessing the drivers upper back now being used to open or close the hypothetical device.

[El Scorchio]

Mercedes have a long history of understanding and development of wing stalling technology.
In the past it was the leader of fluid switch activated systems, front wing, rear wing etc.
Are we witnessing a return of something similar?
The fact that Hamilton is pulling or pushing on the wheel is perhaps a slight misdirection, as perhaps were witnessing the drivers upper back now being used to open or close the hypothetical device.

How exactly? Aren't they (supposed to be- at least!) strapped in so tightly there is no torso movement?