2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

[mkay]

I dont see a penalty for Bottas.
Merc can argue that he had a yellow S3 despite the Monster tow of Alonso at start finsh straight. Or do they check mini sectors?

They will check throttle trace. Live timing app telemetry didn't show any lifting by either BOT or VER.

[Tizz]

Their was no indication on the dashboards either, but the flags, panels and the stranded car were clear to see.

I had only access to live timing but the yellow was gone almost immediately. What happened there?

The marshall in the vicinity had his/her own ideas and was waving away.

Verstappens time should then been denied automatically, not sure of Bottas improved last lap. Sounds like communication was failing ?

[west52keep64]

Their was no indication on the dashboards either, but the flags, panels and the stranded car were clear to see.

I had only access to live timing but the yellow was gone almost immediately. What happened there?

The marshall in the vicinity had his/her own ideas and was waving away.

It's the other way around actually, the marshal's flags take priority, the digital systems are secondary. The reasoning is the marshal will have better visibility and can react quicker than race control. So they absolutely didn't have "his/her own ideas", they were doing their job and the double waved yellows were 100% valid.

[Mogster]

The panel was flashing white, apparently that means slow car..? The Marshall was waving double yellows madly.

[214270]

I had only access to live timing but the yellow was gone almost immediately. What happened there?

The marshall in the vicinity had his/her own ideas and was waving away.

Verstappens time should then been denied automatically, not sure of Bottas improved last lap. Sounds like communication was failing ?

Yes, there’s plenty of debate over it. I’ve not seen SAIs onboard so cant comment, VER looks like a slam dunk to me and with BOT I personally don’t see any flag motion but others believe a single yellow was waving. We’ll see tomorrow.

[214270]

I had only access to live timing but the yellow was gone almost immediately. What happened there?

The marshall in the vicinity had his/her own ideas and was waving away.

It's the other way around actually, the marshal's flags take priority, the digital systems are secondary. The reasoning is the marshal will have better visibility and can react quicker than race control. So they absolutely didn't have "his/her own ideas", they were doing their job and the double waved yellows were 100% valid.

I’m aware. The issue is that it doesnt appear to have been sanctioned by race control.

[west52keep64]

The marshall in the vicinity had his/her own ideas and was waving away.

It's the other way around actually, the marshal's flags take priority, the digital systems are secondary. The reasoning is the marshal will have better visibility and can react quicker than race control. So they absolutely didn't have "his/her own ideas", they were doing their job and the double waved yellows were 100% valid.

I’m aware. The issue is that it doesnt appear to have been sanctioned by race control.

You've misunderstood how marshalling works. The marshal's do not need to wait for race control to "sanction" their decision. They use their own judgement, if there is a danger they can use the flags as appropriate.

[Big Tea]

Does it really matter if the marshal was wrong? The 'sign' was there and should have been obeyed. No one, especially the drivers themselves knew at the time if it was a genuine case or not, so if they had not obeyed the flag and it was a real 'workers on track' and possibly attending the driver of the car pulled over, it could have been nasty.

I am not usually big in 'ah, but it could have been', but this can not be allowed to be taken into the drivers own hands, who ever the driver is.

[siskue2005]

The marshall in the vicinity had his/her own ideas and was waving away.

It's the other way around actually, the marshal's flags take priority, the digital systems are secondary. The reasoning is the marshal will have better visibility and can react quicker than race control. So they absolutely didn't have "his/her own ideas", they were doing their job and the double waved yellows were 100% valid.

I’m aware. The issue is that it doesnt appear to have been sanctioned by race control.

The track marshals have full authority to put whatever flag they see fit in that situation.
As this is safety-related the race control don't need to be intimated

[RZS10]

Yes, there’s plenty of debate over it. I’ve not seen SAIs onboard so cant comment, VER looks like a slam dunk to me and with BOT I personally don’t see any flag motion but others believe a single yellow was waving. We’ll see tomorrow.

Sainz is similar to Bottas, the flag is out but barely moving.

[jurinius]

Interesting in F1 dictionary ! Few clarifications about GPS Marshaling System :
If there is any discrepancy between what is displayed on a driver's dashboard and what is being displayed on the track, then the trackside flags and lights take precedence.

(Trolling comment removed)

[214270]

It's the other way around actually, the marshal's flags take priority, the digital systems are secondary. The reasoning is the marshal will have better visibility and can react quicker than race control. So they absolutely didn't have "his/her own ideas", they were doing their job and the double waved yellows were 100% valid.

I’m aware. The issue is that it doesnt appear to have been sanctioned by race control.

You've misunderstood how marshalling works. The marshal's do not need to wait for race control to "sanction" their decision. They use their own judgement, if there is a danger they can use the flags as appropriate.

No I do understand the principle, this is not an exceptional situation though. There’s nothing here that would warrant the marshall not aligning with race control - we see stopped/slow traffic all the time. It doesn’t matter know, we’ll see what happens tomorrow.

[214270]

Double post

[west52keep64]

No I do understand the principle, this is not an exceptional situation though. There’s nothing here that would warrant the marshall not aligning with race control - we see stopped/slow traffic all the time. It doesn’t matter know, we’ll see what happens tomorrow.

There's no requirement for the marshal to "align with race control", quite the opposite in fact. The marshal's are responsible for notifying race control of hazards they have observed.

For the avoidance of doubt, these are the regulations regarding the use of flags at marshalling posts:

APPENDIX H INTERNATIONAL SPORTING CODE

a) Red flag
This should be shown waved only on
instruction from the Clerk of the Course when
it becomes necessary to stop a practice
session or the race in conformity with Article
2.4.4.1 b) above.

b) Yellow flag
This is a signal of danger and should be
shown to drivers in two ways with the
following meanings:
- Single waved: Reduce your speed, do not
overtake, and be prepared to change
direction. There is a hazard beside or partly
on the track. It must be evident that a driver
has reduced speed; this means a driver is
expected to have braked earlier and/or
noticeably reduced speed in that sector.
- Double waved: Reduce your speed
significantly, do not overtake, and be
prepared to change direction or stop. There
is a hazard wholly or partly blocking the
track and/or marshals working on or beside
the track. During free practice and
qualifying, it must be evident that a driver
has not attempted to set a meaningful lap
time; this means the driver should abandon
the lap (this does not mean he has to pit as
the track could well be clear the following
lap).
Yellow flags should normally be shown only at
the marshal post immediately preceding the
hazard.
In some cases, however, the Clerk of the
Course may order them to be shown at more
than one marshal post preceding an incident.
Overtaking is not permitted between the first
yellow flag and the green flag displayed after
the incident.

Note that for a red flag the marshal should await an instruction from the clerk of the course, but for the yellow flag they have autonomy, and quite often it's the marshal's informing race control of the hazard.

[cooken]

A car stopped off track is almost always double waved yellows, and sometimes red. In this case pulled over near the pit wall, the double yellows are most definitely warranted.

To be clear, if race control's intention was to leave this part of the track green under those circumstances, there is something VERY wrong with race control...