2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[ringo]

I dont see why Bahrain is even being discussed.
No regulation was manipulated there. And to weaken the discussion. Track limit rules are in the name of fair competition. The director decides which turns are policed to foster equity in cars lapping the circuit. If he changes midway during the race its for all.

1. The race director did not rewrite rules in favour of any team. All cars could do what Lewis was doing there. Max could as well but maybe it was not the fastest for him.

2. Not acting on a rule is way different than recreating rules to setup a likely outcome that disadvantanged a competitor.

This did not happen in Bahrain. Masi did not see Lewis leading and twist a rule that disadvantaged Max but benefited Lewis in an irreversible and powerless way.

Max fans please stop grasping for straws for other instances. Nothing has happened in F1 like what happened on Sunday ever.
The closest thing was Max pushing off Lewis in Brazil.

You cannot find 1 example where a regulation was corrupted then implemented opportunistically to mislead 1 team's decision making and to provide an unfair advtantage to another team. It has never happened like this in F1 before.

The last time i can think of is Spa 2007 with Kimi and Hamilton where Lewis was robbed of a win and rules manipulated. And even then it was somewhat easier to digest because the rule was not changed in race. The event was completed and then the rule created after the fact. This was wrong and i still consider Hamilton having 1 more win back then.

Now it even makes it 2 wins that Hamilton has been robbed of by the FIA.

Well not against a team, but certainly vs. another driver - coincidentally Hamilton's hero - Ayrton Senna. What the FIA did under leadership of Jean-Marie Balestre, it's deja-vu for me. He didn't want Senna to win - a Frenchman at the helm of a French organisation, making sure the French driver, Alain Prost, won. Even though it was clear by any standard that Prost forced a collision with Senna in Suzuka 1989 - and Senna was DISQUALIFIED from that race, losing him the championship in the process. FIA's reasoning? That he "Cut the course, and therefore did not respect the distance of the race". Ron Dennis defended Senna that year, showing with evidence that there was inconsistency in applied rules regarding escape roads. The FIA disregarded it, Mclaren did not take it any further than that.

To add insult to injury, the very next year, at the title fight at the same circuit in Suzuka, the pole position slot was suddenly and misteriously changed sides, off the normal racing line - to give Senna a disadvantage, clearly. Senna then took it upon himself to crash Prost out once he saw Prost pulling away from what was his side of the grid really, which I really do not blame him for, at all. He was f***** over once, and wasn't going to let the FIA f***** him over twice.

This is that same situation ALL OVER AGAIN. With Mercedes today not showing up for pre-event ceremonies at the FIA Gala, I really do hope Merc stick it to the FIA hard, hopefully going as far to go to the CAS if necessary, to once and for all end this for any driver that may experience this kind of discrimination against his character ever again, because that is what it is.

edit: I recommend you all to watch the documentary "Senna", to see this whole episode played out in very good detail. Then come back and tell me this isn't the exact same thing.

Good post!!

Yes the sport is not immune to manipulation.

I think Lewis comes of a greater legend for this whole situation.
In fact it has allowed him to be greater than the sport itself.
Going forward every journo or commentator that speaks to him or about him will have this farce in the back of their minds.

This is also somewhat adding to the lore of Mercedes AMG as well.

Jesse Owens in the 1936 Olympics of Nazi Germany comes to mind. He is still remembered to this day and what he symbolized.

[dwhight]

Conspiracy theories! How about Masi just made a call, right or wrong, some liked it, some didn't, it benefitted one party and not the other.

I'm sure the FIA have done things to encourage competition at the detriment of Mercedes, why wouldn't they, a sport is boring if one team continuously wins. But to say they have purposely made a decision to screw Merc and Hamilton over is ridiculous. Prost and Senna and the bias Prost got was a completely different matter, the FIA was French run and they wanted their French driver to win, at all costs, you could see all decisions benefitted Prost. But that's very very different to the race director making a questionable decision.

[Big Tea]

i suggest you read the convo again . i am not the one pushing that narrative . what i said was there was no track limits until Masi decided otherwise which has nothing to do with what happened last sunday

It does. You say "there was no track limits until Masi decided otherwise" and the rule did not change the whole time.
Either rules are there or they are not. They do not appear halfway through a race. The rule was there all along and ignored, then suddenly the decision was made and it was enforced. That is subjective.

( facepalm) again there was not track limit enforced at that particular part of the race track , all drivers were permitted to do what Hamilton did per the RD notes until that was not the case anymore and that had no relevance to what happened last sunday

So, once again, in your own words, had that rule (and many more) been enforced, we would not be having this conversation??? I am not taking the side of one driver or one team here, just that from one lap to the next there is inconsistency.

The only way to avoid inconsistency is to consistently enforce, or even consistently ignore a rule.
First lap first race to last lap last race.
Is this wrong?

[rb88]

Any news on Merc yet? Are they taking it to court? It's been more than 72 hours now

Nothing. Complete radio silence. Hamilton was knighted today, didn't say a word to the press other than "Thank you" when congratulated on his honors.

I think from the top-down, everyone from Mercedes has been given the order to observe complete and utter radio silence while they prepare their case with a bunch of high-powered lawyers.

Merc also didn't show up today with any cars at the photo shoot for the pre FIA Gala, without a word why. I think this is a clear sign of their intent.

[Oleo]

The regulations say white line = track limit. Then the teams and drivers make an agreement with race control for each track about track limits and write that down in event notes for clarity.
The regulations give a standard protocol for safety car, which defines the length of the safety car. Then the teams and drivers make an agreement with race control that they prefer to finish any race under green conditions if possible and if it is safe to do so. A shortening of the safety car can only be accomplished by being fluid with the standard protocol. Since it requires fluid adaptation depending on the situation and is the same agreement for every race, it wont be mentioned in event notes.

[darkpino]

Any news on Merc yet? Are they taking it to court? It's been more than 72 hours now

Nothing. Complete radio silence. Hamilton was knighted today, didn't say a word to the press other than "Thank you" when congratulated on his honors.

I think from the top-down, everyone from Mercedes has been given the order to observe complete and utter radio silence while they prepare their case with a bunch of high-powered lawyers.

Merc also didn't show up today with any cars at the photo shoot for the pre FIA Gala, without a word why. I think this is a clear sign of their intent.

I think it’s time for F1 to move on without Mercedes. We saw what happened this year in football when a couple of teams went into powerplay mode, we don’t need that in Motorsport. Toto Wolff has way too much power for way too long now, time to shut him up

[holeindalip]

Conspiracy theories! How about Masi just made a call, right or wrong, some liked it, some didn't, it benefitted one party and not the other.

I'm sure the FIA have done things to encourage competition at the detriment of Mercedes, why wouldn't they, a sport is boring if one team continuously wins. But to say they have purposely made a decision to screw Merc and Hamilton over is ridiculous. Prost and Senna and the bias Prost got was a completely different matter, the FIA was French run and they wanted their French driver to win, at all costs, you could see all decisions benefitted Prost. But that's very very different to the race director making a questionable decision.

Masi made a call that didn’t follow the safety car procedures, it wasn’t just about making a black or white call that benefitted one team or another

[cheeRS]

Any news on Merc yet? Are they taking it to court? It's been more than 72 hours now

Nothing. Complete radio silence. Hamilton was knighted today, didn't say a word to the press other than "Thank you" when congratulated on his honors.

I think from the top-down, everyone from Mercedes has been given the order to observe complete and utter radio silence while they prepare their case with a bunch of high-powered lawyers.

Merc also didn't show up today with any cars at the photo shoot for the pre FIA Gala, without a word why. I think this is a clear sign of their intent.

I think it’s time for F1 to move on without Mercedes. We saw what happened this year in football when a couple of teams went into powerplay mode, we don’t need that in Motorsport. Toto Wolff has way too much power for way too long now, time to shut him up

We need Merc, Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Williams... all of them in F1. They've all had periods of utter dominance. Come on now.

[darkpino]

Nothing. Complete radio silence. Hamilton was knighted today, didn't say a word to the press other than "Thank you" when congratulated on his honors.

I think from the top-down, everyone from Mercedes has been given the order to observe complete and utter radio silence while they prepare their case with a bunch of high-powered lawyers.

Merc also didn't show up today with any cars at the photo shoot for the pre FIA Gala, without a word why. I think this is a clear sign of their intent.

I think it’s time for F1 to move on without Mercedes. We saw what happened this year in football when a couple of teams went into powerplay mode, we don’t need that in Motorsport. Toto Wolff has way too much power for way too long now, time to shut him up

We need Merc, Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Williams... all of them in F1. They've all had periods of utter dominance. Come on now.

As far as I can remember none of them ever went into powerplay mode the way Mercedes does now. They protested, it got denied with the rules clearly shuffled down their noses. If they want to go to court: let’s do it. They will lose

[kenshi_blind]

It does. You say "there was no track limits until Masi decided otherwise" and the rule did not change the whole time.
Either rules are there or they are not. They do not appear halfway through a race. The rule was there all along and ignored, then suddenly the decision was made and it was enforced. That is subjective.

( facepalm) again there was not track limit enforced at that particular part of the race track , all drivers were permitted to do what Hamilton did per the RD notes until that was not the case anymore and that had no relevance to what happened last sunday

So, once again, in your own words, had that rule (and many more) been enforced, we would not be having this conversation??? I am not taking the side of one driver or one team here, just that from one lap to the next there is inconsistency.

The only way to avoid inconsistency is to consistently enforce, or even consistently ignore a rule.
First lap first race to last lap last race.
Is this wrong?

It it's not wrong.i do not disagree with the suggestions you've just put forward in order to have consistency. My issue is that it's disingenuous to equate what happened last Sunday to what happened in Bahrain.

[darkpino]

( facepalm) again there was not track limit enforced at that particular part of the race track , all drivers were permitted to do what Hamilton did per the RD notes until that was not the case anymore and that had no relevance to what happened last sunday

So, once again, in your own words, had that rule (and many more) been enforced, we would not be having this conversation??? I am not taking the side of one driver or one team here, just that from one lap to the next there is inconsistency.

The only way to avoid inconsistency is to consistently enforce, or even consistently ignore a rule.
First lap first race to last lap last race.
Is this wrong?

It it's not wrong.i do not disagree with the suggestions you've just put forward in order to have consistency. My issue is that it's disingenuous to equate what happened last Sunday to what happened in Bahrain.

And that’s exactly the whole problem there is. People rooting for Lewis are acting like the season was only Abu Dhabi long. It had a lot more races and over the season Max was just as good and had a lot more misfortune than Lewis had. He was lucky at the right time. Just like Lewis was at Imola, Hungary, Silverstone and Baku (where he didn’t capitalise on, his own fault)

[kenshi_blind]

Why is it so difficult for you to get a grasp with the fact that when the AD GP started it was a clean slate for the title contenders? So whatever happened before had no relevance once that Gp started, the pundits recognised that, the title contenders themselves recognised it ( Max even alluded to the fact that it was like the 1st GP of the season as in they were all on equal footing).
What happened was not luck... The way the SC protocol was handled was not luck.

[jurinius]

"Toto has way too much power...", "Mercedes domination is boring after x years", ... What else ? They deserves everything they have accomplished in this sport.

I remember watching all Michael Schumacher titles but being over the moon for just one Mika Hakkinen victory. I remember watching all Vettel titles but shouting just for one pole position of Lewis Hamilton in his MacLaren even if I knew sunday win is pure illusion.

You can support Max and Redbull as much as you can but taking a Championship like this is just disgusting and should be given back to Lewis and Mercedes. If the FIA doesn't want to, they have the right to bring the case everywhere they want. Tomorrow if MacLaren want to win a title after all those years they just need to talk with the RD right ? Thats the message.

[cheeRS]

So, once again, in your own words, had that rule (and many more) been enforced, we would not be having this conversation??? I am not taking the side of one driver or one team here, just that from one lap to the next there is inconsistency.

The only way to avoid inconsistency is to consistently enforce, or even consistently ignore a rule.
First lap first race to last lap last race.
Is this wrong?

It it's not wrong.i do not disagree with the suggestions you've just put forward in order to have consistency. My issue is that it's disingenuous to equate what happened last Sunday to what happened in Bahrain.

And that’s exactly the whole problem there is. People rooting for Lewis are acting like the season was only Abu Dhabi long. It had a lot more races and over the season Max was just as good and had a lot more misfortune than Lewis had. He was lucky at the right time. Just like Lewis was at Imola, Hungary, Silverstone and Baku (where he didn’t capitalise on, his own fault)

You just highlighted the problem here. Yes, Max was unlucky this year sometimes. Lewis was unlucky sometimes. Let's just say that Max was MORE unlucky this year. That has nothing to do with him deserving the WDC more than Lewis, or that we should dismiss the fiasco that was Abu Dhabi.

Again, if the roles were reversed on Sunday, you'd have the RB fans/Dutch crying bloody murder. And as I've publicly stated here, I am a fan of both drivers. They both missed out on race wins this year that they should have had. But still, if Lewis won the way Max did on Sunday, it would have been equally a sham and a travesty.

Should the FIA have given Kimi the title in 2006 because he was the best driver that year and it wasn't "fair" that his car broke down?

Should the FIA have given Lewis the title in 2007, because he was the best rookie and it wasn't fair that Alonso was mean to him?

Should the FIA have taken away Keke Rosberg's title because he only won a single race that year?

This whole argument that - "Max drove really good though! He should have won the WDC by 50 points because Lewis and Bottas both took him out!" - is utterly ridiculous and illogical.

Sometimes, the best driver DOESN'T win the WDC

[DrDejan]

Conspiracy theories! How about Masi just made a call, right or wrong, some liked it, some didn't, it benefitted one party and not the other.

I'm sure the FIA have done things to encourage competition at the detriment of Mercedes, why wouldn't they, a sport is boring if one team continuously wins. But to say they have purposely made a decision to screw Merc and Hamilton over is ridiculous. Prost and Senna and the bias Prost got was a completely different matter, the FIA was French run and they wanted their French driver to win, at all costs, you could see all decisions benefitted Prost. But that's very very different to the race director making a questionable decision.

Masi made a call that didn’t follow the safety car procedures, it wasn’t just about making a black or white call that benefitted one team or another

Actually, first he made a decision that followed the procedures. Teams got a message that lapped cars will stay where they are before the restart, because otherwise there wouldn’t be time for a proper restart.
Then something changed in the decision room. A phone call, radio contact, bank app alert, sudden wave of spiritual clarity?! He had a combined wtf and go to hell moment, and the rest is history.