FIA World Engine

[nae]

I fail to understand how developing a new engine will be cheaper than
keeping the current ones, all be it with frozen spec (regaqrdless of the
sport)

is this another spend money to reduce cost fantasy like kers

constant change cannot be cheaper than the status quo (in develpoment)

[jshaw]

The thought of this is scary.

Max Mosely is hellbent on breeding a 'master race' of engines, casting aside anything that be different and original.

Some of the most interesting head to head contests in history have been between 2 teams who have gone about things completely differently, ground effect vs fan car, V12s vs V8s, Diesel vs Petrol even. And now Max wants to kill this all off (Variety is fast dying in international motorsport already anyway.), all the manufacturers in international racing under the control of the FIA will leave, and international racing will die.

I really really wish there was something I could do about it, but I have all the influence of an average racing fan, and its clear that the FIA doesn't listen to fans, and neither does Bernie realy.

[ISLAMATRON]

This is absolutely a great idea, unfortunately many of you are too short-sided to see it.

So when is the last time a WRC engine had to form part (well, essentially all) of the primary loadpaths from front to back axle?

So you never knew that they bolted in Cosworth DFV's into any rally cars? Design it as a load bearing structure and then drop it into the rally car? What was so difficult about thinking about that... it is easily done and has been done plenty times before.

The ICE is dead technology, there is no need to have so many different types of dinosaurs still roaming the earth... 1 engine to provide from 200 to 800hp while doing it cheaply and efficiently is enough... each manufacturer can design & build their own and there will still be differentiation amongst the designs. Displacement & configuration is the same for everyone, and take it from there.

[Chaparral]

This is absolutely a great idea, unfortunately many of you are too short-sided to see it.

So when is the last time a WRC engine had to form part (well, essentially all) of the primary loadpaths from front to back axle?

So you never knew that they bolted in Cosworth DFV's into any rally cars? Design it as a load bearing structure and then drop it into the rally car? What was so difficult about thinking about that... it is easily done and has been done plenty times before.

The ICE is dead technology, there is no need to have so many different types of dinosaurs still roaming the earth... 1 engine to provide from 200 to 800hp while doing it cheaply and efficiently is enough... each manufacturer can design & build their own and there will still be differentiation amongst the designs. Displacement & configuration is the same for everyone, and take it from there.

So Is - I take it your a fan of cloning for all purposes - be it humans, animals, powerplants, transmissions, having a 'world car' where one design suits all, you can only walk on the left side of the street if going downtown and the right side going uptown - geezus where are you coming from mate that statement from you beggars belief - have you actually stepped into the real world of business and the natural competitive nature that is the human being - please!

[xpensive]

I for one remember when engineers at Mercedes-Benz, bright as they are, came up with he brilliant idea in the late 80s of the "500 cc" cylinder. In other words, a four cylinder should be 2 litres, a six 3, a V8 4 and a V12 6.
Same pistons, con-rods, valves and everyting else as far as possible, all for production reasons.

The concept didn't last very long as I can recall, all it took was for BMW to present a 4.4 V8.

[ISLAMATRON]

So Is - I take it your a fan of cloning for all purposes - be it humans, animals, powerplants, transmissions, having a 'world car' where one design suits all, you can only walk on the left side of the street if going downtown and the right side going uptown - geezus where are you coming from mate that statement from you beggars belief - have you actually stepped into the real world of business and the natural competitive nature that is the human being - please!

We are talking about engines, fuel burning machines, not cloning, not products for sale in a marketplace, but racing machines... anyone with any sense knows that allowing too open a formula increases costs exponentially, teams running a different spec engine for a every race, a v-8 for Monaco and a v-12 for Monza or what have you and thus needing different chassis to accommodate them, then you have 6 different cars over the course of 1 season just for 1 team ... it makes perfect sense to say hey look every runs a 2.4L v-8 for the whole season.

Costs & speeds need to be kept under control... anyone who refuses to realize that is just not being reasonable.

There was competition between the engine manufacturers when the formula was a 3L v-10 and it will continue to be so.

I think alot of you are making the mistake of thinking there will only be 1 manufacturer for the engines... That is not what MAx said... the plan is to have 1 displacement and lay out for a great number of series. So everybody build different 2L I-4's for example. FErrari, MErcedes, BMW, Subaru, Mitsubishi can all provide blocks for F-1, or F-2 or WRC and so on. Not Cosworth designing 1 engine to be placed in every car for all those series.

[ISLAMATRON]

I for one remember when engineers at Mercedes-Benz, bright as they are, came up with he brilliant idea in the late 80s of the "500 cc" cylinder. In other words, a four cylinder should be 2 litres, a six 3, a V8 4 and a V12 6.
Same pistons, con-rods, valves and everyting else as far as possible, all for production reasons.

The concept didn't last very long as I can recall, all it took was for BMW to present a 4.4 V8.

All they had to do was bump it up to 550cc's per cylinder for their next generation of engines.

Or better yet, just turbo their 4L V-8 and blow BMW out the water.

[xpensive]

Thee you go Islam, there you go.

[DaveKillens]

There are valid arguments on both sides in this issue. The idea of cost saving is appropriate in the present economic climate.
But even in NASCAR, the engines are optimized for the specific task. And each and every Formula One engine is hand built for one task. From the journal bearing size to the shape of the intake trumpets, they are specific for that one engine type. If one engine is adopted for multiple classes, then we wind up with , as the saying goes, "jack of all trades, master of none". Because of requirements to compromise, this proposed engine, if applied to Formula One use, would be like transplanting a lawn mower engine.
Now I'd like to get to the subject that I want everyone to be aware of. I hate being repetitive, but this is very important. The major threat to Max's and Bernie's power (and fortunes) is the FOTA. And trust me, they want to destroy this alliance. Now place this in context with this proposed universal engine. Do you think that any manufacturer who procuce engines wants to become involved where their cars and or engines do not shine? If we have a universal engine, then as far as the public is concerned, all engines are the same, with zreo differences. Thus, manufacturers such as Ferrari, McLaren, Toyota, and BMW would find no reason to be involved in this racing series, and leave. And if they left, the chances of FOTA surviving is slim to none.

[kilcoo316]

So you never knew that they bolted in Cosworth DFV's into any rally cars?

No I've never heard of V-8 DFVs in rally cars.


Show me an example please.

Design it as a load bearing structure and then drop it into the rally car?

Has the concept of longitudinal balance escaped you?

What was so difficult about thinking about that... it is easily done and has been done plenty times before.

Yes... it has been done. In tractors, lorries, vans and road cars.

Show me a decent race/rally car where it has been done.

The ICE is dead technology, there is no need to have so many different types of dinosaurs still roaming the earth...

Really? Dead? Dinosaur?

Last time I looked, the ICE seemed to be outselling all the alternatives by a massive amount.

[jddh1]

Sometimes I wonder what Ayrton would say about Spanky's ideas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_ZTHFj6CaM
around 2 mins

@ 2:22, "A result of politicians making stupid decisions."

[noname]

anyone with any sense knows that allowing too open a formula increases costs exponentially

http://atlasf1.autosport.com/2000/bri/faq.html

as we see the biggest budget of the F1 in 1999 was approx. 285e6 $. I recall article stating at this time Mercedes was supplying McLaren with some 100 engines per year, and they were taking 10 engines for every race weekend.

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3 ... 49,00.html

and then we have 2008 and teams spending more than 50% more, even if cost-cutting measures were introduced.

[jddh1]

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 3402.shtml

Interesting article on F1 live.
The dude is right. Drop Bernie. He's taking 50% of all revenues. If they create their own series, they can run it better I think. More revenue for them, cheaper contracts with the race track officials. I think it's time to leave F1 altogether.

[nae]

I think it's time to leave F1 altogether.

if the teams dont the fans will (well at this rate anyway)

[andartop]

I think it's a great idea. Then they can introduce a universal chassis and universal tires as well. And then the public will be ready for the universal racetrack. I mean, why travel all around the world spending all that money and increasing CO2 emissions when you could have 1 circuit that could be customized for any kind of motorsport? Especially after considering that the large majority of fans will watch it on the TV anyway.

Seriously now, in this --- PC world, could we argue that it is against our religion to have the same engine in Formula 1 and WRC?