2022 Alpine F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

Pedro De la Rosa said Alonso will defently not win in 2022.
Not news, but he clearly know something about the car from talking to Alonso.

Not surprising. Pedro is a reliable source when it comes to Alonso's first impression of the car.

[diffuser]

We should have 6 or 7 teams with wins this year. and maybe 9 teams with podiums.

Based on what exactly?

The top 3 over the last decade and more have done it by spending double the midfield. Easy to build the better mousetrap when you can pay people more and pay more people.

Today's reality is that if you pay people more, you'll end up with a smaller workforce. With the exception of the three highest paid personnel that a team can exempt from the CAP, salaries are counted towards the CAP. I can't see Merc building a car that is so much faster, than let's say McLaren, now that Merc no longer has double the workforce.

Someone mentioned convergence might be playing a part. I'd have to agree with that. I have no Idea how that part will play out. What's certain is cars are very diverse this year. Some teams will hit performance walls caused by the design directions they have chosen and have to change direction at some point. When that is I don't know.

[JPower]

We should have 6 or 7 teams with wins this year. and maybe 9 teams with podiums.

Based on what exactly?

The top 3 over the last decade and more have done it by spending double the midfield. Easy to build the better mousetrap when you can pay people more and pay more people.

Today's reality is that if you pay people more, you'll end up with a smaller workforce. With the exception of the three highest paid personnel that a team can exempt from the CAP, salaries are counted towards the CAP. I can't see Merc building a car that is so much faster, than let's say McLaren, now that Merc no longer has double the workforce.

Someone mentioned convergence might be playing a part. I'd have to agree with that. I have no Idea how that part will play out. What's certain is cars are very diverse this year. Some teams will hit performance walls caused by the design directions they have chosen and have to change direction at some point. When that is I don't know.

Much of the 2022 cars were designed when there was no cap. Maybe in 2-3 years things will even out, but right now Merc, RB, and Ferrari still have by far and away the best facilities and simulation tools on the grid. The budget cap wasn’t going to make an instant impact on relative team performance.

[diffuser]

Based on what exactly?

The top 3 over the last decade and more have done it by spending double the midfield. Easy to build the better mousetrap when you can pay people more and pay more people.

Today's reality is that if you pay people more, you'll end up with a smaller workforce. With the exception of the three highest paid personnel that a team can exempt from the CAP, salaries are counted towards the CAP. I can't see Merc building a car that is so much faster, than let's say McLaren, now that Merc no longer has double the workforce.

Someone mentioned convergence might be playing a part. I'd have to agree with that. I have no Idea how that part will play out. What's certain is cars are very diverse this year. Some teams will hit performance walls caused by the design directions they have chosen and have to change direction at some point. When that is I don't know.

Much of the 2022 cars were designed when there was no cap. Maybe in 2-3 years things will even out, but right now Merc, RB, and Ferrari still have by far and away the best facilities and simulation tools on the grid. The budget cap wasn’t going to make an instant impact on relative team performance.

Remember in 2020 they were banned from doing aero on the 2022 cars until jan 1 2021. That and they only finalised the regs in 2020.

The season hasn't even started yet and Horner is concerned about having to lay people off to stay under the CAP. He'll have a hell of a time gettting HAAS to sign off on that. Haas's budget is probably well below CAP, after just losing a chunk of it, doudt they're willing to give the teams with more money a bigger edge. Haas is probably thinikng to themselves..... Hmmm lets see if I can get more adversising money and take those people off your hands.

https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/ne ... %20season.

[diffuser]

Don't forget 2022 wind tunnel time. Stage 2 regs kicking in this year.

Merc has 280Hrs
RBR  has 300
Fer  has 320
McL  has 340
Alp  has 360
etc etc etc 
Haas has 460

[JPower]

Remember in 2020 they were banned from doing aero on the 2022 cars until jan 1 2021. That and they only finalised the regs in 2020.

The season hasn't even started yet and Horner is concerned about having to lay people off to stay under the CAP. He'll have a hell of a time gettting HAAS to sign off on that. Haas's budget is probably well below CAP, after just losing a chunk of it, doudt they're willing to give the teams with more money a bigger edge. Haas is probably thinikng to themselves..... Hmmm lets see if I can get more adversising money and take those people off your hands.

https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/ne ... %20season.

Teams were doing R&D before the freeze.

Regardless, the cap doesn't cover the facilities and tools teams already had before the restriction. Merc/Red Bull/Ferrari have a significant advantage there and in general in house knowledge. You can't catch up to team that's spent $300+ million a year for a decade within one year.

Zak Brown has highlighted that point frequently and its why Aston and Alpine have also targeted 2023-2024 for championship contention.

[diffuser]

Remember in 2020 they were banned from doing aero on the 2022 cars until jan 1 2021. That and they only finalised the regs in 2020.

The season hasn't even started yet and Horner is concerned about having to lay people off to stay under the CAP. He'll have a hell of a time gettting HAAS to sign off on that. Haas's budget is probably well below CAP, after just losing a chunk of it, doudt they're willing to give the teams with more money a bigger edge. Haas is probably thinikng to themselves..... Hmmm lets see if I can get more adversising money and take those people off your hands.

https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/ne ... %20season.

Teams were doing R&D before the freeze.

Regardless, the cap doesn't cover the facilities and tools teams already had before the restriction. Merc/Red Bull/Ferrari have a significant advantage there and in general in house knowledge. You can't catch up to team that's spent $300+ million a year for a decade within one year.

Zak Brown has highlighted that point frequently and its why Aston and Alpine have also targeted 2023-2024 for championship contention.

Alpine/Renault have Amazing facilities. They've just recently upgraded them. Think the wind tunnel was completed in 2018.

[AR3-GP]

Remember in 2020 they were banned from doing aero on the 2022 cars until jan 1 2021. That and they only finalised the regs in 2020.

The season hasn't even started yet and Horner is concerned about having to lay people off to stay under the CAP. He'll have a hell of a time gettting HAAS to sign off on that. Haas's budget is probably well below CAP, after just losing a chunk of it, doudt they're willing to give the teams with more money a bigger edge. Haas is probably thinikng to themselves..... Hmmm lets see if I can get more adversising money and take those people off your hands.

https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/ne ... %20season.

Teams were doing R&D before the freeze.

Regardless, the cap doesn't cover the facilities and tools teams already had before the restriction. Merc/Red Bull/Ferrari have a significant advantage there and in general in house knowledge. You can't catch up to team that's spent $300+ million a year for a decade within one year.

Zak Brown has highlighted that point frequently and its why Aston and Alpine have also targeted 2023-2024 for championship contention.

Alpine/Renault have Amazing facilities. They've just recently upgraded them. Think the wind tunnel was completed in 2018.

If the facilities are great, then they are running out of excuses

[GoranF1]

Alpine/Renault technical department that is now under Fry seem to have taken following aproach to 2022.
- agressive PU development (main focus)
- conservative aero development (focus on fast competition ideas copy in season)
- hoping Fry suspension and mechanical expetise to give early advantage

[diffuser]

Teams were doing R&D before the freeze.

Regardless, the cap doesn't cover the facilities and tools teams already had before the restriction. Merc/Red Bull/Ferrari have a significant advantage there and in general in house knowledge. You can't catch up to team that's spent $300+ million a year for a decade within one year.

Zak Brown has highlighted that point frequently and its why Aston and Alpine have also targeted 2023-2024 for championship contention.

Alpine/Renault have Amazing facilities. They've just recently upgraded them. Think the wind tunnel was completed in 2018.

If the facilities are great, then they are running out of excuses

Hate to tell you this but 1 team wins, 9 teams have excuses.

[diffuser]

Alpine/Renault technical department that is now under Fry seem to have taken following aproach to 2022.
- agressive PU development (main focus)
- conservative aero development (focus on fast competition ideas copy in season)
- hoping Fry suspension and mechanical expetise to give early advantage

Their sidepod approach is conservative but not far off what RBR are doing. Pictures show that those sidepods are completely empty. So they're strickly there to guide and sculpt the air.
They start far back too...they're not without purpose.

[JPower]

Alpine/Renault have Amazing facilities. They've just recently upgraded them. Think the wind tunnel was completed in 2018.

Again, you don't catch up to teams that have spent $300+ million per year for a decade straight in one year of a budget cap. Renault was not spending on that level.

So no, I don't believe their facilities and institutional knowledge are on par with Mercedes/Ferrari/Red Bull until proven otherwise. If you do have proof they are, then Renault is the most underachieving team in the history of the sport.

[diffuser]

Alpine/Renault have Amazing facilities. They've just recently upgraded them. Think the wind tunnel was completed in 2018.

Again, you don't catch up to teams that have spent $300+ million per year for a decade straight in one year of a budget cap. Renault was not spending on that level.

So no, I don't believe their facilities and institutional knowledge are on par with Mercedes/Ferrari/Red Bull until proven otherwise. If you do have proof they are, then Renault is the most underachieving team in the history of the sport.

I can only tell you what Palmer said on F1 TV yesterday. That's he's seen them and they're amazing.

Institution knowledge is just people and when you have to let go 25% of your work force, that know how goes with them and is free to be shared with everyone and anyone. Also the CAP prevents you from being able to outbid all the other teams for personnel, you can only protect 3 people. Teams like Haas (11 weeks) have literally more than 4 full work weeks in the wind tunnel more than Merc (7 weeks) and RBR(7.5 weeks). In Haas's case, they have employees, that worked for Ferrari last year, working in a Haas section in Maranello. They use the Ferrari wind tunnel. Now Haas suffer from obvious buget constraints but not knowledge.

I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that Alpine is gonna win the constructors this year. I have no clue. I will tell you the odds of them finishing less that the 400 points they finished behind the 2nd place team is very high. Hey they may finish 100 points behind the 2nd place team but only 6th place.

[JPower]

Alpine/Renault have Amazing facilities. They've just recently upgraded them. Think the wind tunnel was completed in 2018.

Again, you don't catch up to teams that have spent $300+ million per year for a decade straight in one year of a budget cap. Renault was not spending on that level.

So no, I don't believe their facilities and institutional knowledge are on par with Mercedes/Ferrari/Red Bull until proven otherwise. If you do have proof they are, then Renault is the most underachieving team in the history of the sport.

I can only tell you what Palmer said on F1 TV yesterday. That's he's seen them and they're amazing.

Institution knowledge is just people and when you have to let go 25% of your work force, that know how goes with them and is free to be shared with everyone and anyone. Also the CAP prevents you from being able to outbid all the other teams for personnel, you can only protect 3 people. Teams like Haas (11 weeks) have literally more than 4 full work weeks in the wind tunnel more than Merc (7 weeks) and RBR(7.5 weeks). In Haas's case, they have employees, that worked for Ferrari last year, working in a Haas section in Maranello. They use the Ferrari wind tunnel. Now Haas suffer from obvious buget constraints but not knowledge.

I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that Alpine is gonna win the constructors this year. I have no clue. I will tell you the odds of them finishing less that the 400 points they finished behind the 2nd place team is very high. Hey they may finish 100 points behind the 2nd place team but only 6th place.

OK, given their amazing facilities on par with the top teams of the past decade, you confirm that Renault has been the most underachieving team in F1 history correct?

And now, all of a sudden, due to one year of the budget cap, they'll be back towards the top after 6-7 years of said underachievement?

[AR3-GP]

Alpine/Renault have Amazing facilities. They've just recently upgraded them. Think the wind tunnel was completed in 2018.

Again, you don't catch up to teams that have spent $300+ million per year for a decade straight in one year of a budget cap. Renault was not spending on that level.

So no, I don't believe their facilities and institutional knowledge are on par with Mercedes/Ferrari/Red Bull until proven otherwise. If you do have proof they are, then Renault is the most underachieving team in the history of the sport.

Essentially I agree with this. It's part of why I didn't expect Alpine to catch right up to the leaders. Otmar suggest the team is not as efficient as it could be. The lack of upgrades between the test and now they will only have an aero upgrade after the 5th race according to autosport. That's a long time for a car which so badly needs changes imo.

I'm happy to be stunned when Alonso is on pole in Bahrain, but I find it unlikely.