2022 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, Oct 28 - 30

[johnny comelately]

The thin Mexico city air puts to bed the weak engine argument at least.

What does that have to do with anything? For years, Mexico was an equalizer for the awful Renault and Honda engines.

If anything, Ferrari factory team have a big mapping issue this weekend. Their straight line traces are poor.

My hunch is that although both Alfa and Ferrari share the PU, the fine tuning of the PU in the car differs because both teams are running slightly different intake systems. Alfa don’t use the Ferrari intercoolers design.

Interesting point there, methinks the water/air intercooler could be better than the air/air ones.

[AR3-GP]

I feel bad for Checo. He has been super quick all weekend. I'd love for him to win tomorrow. Hopefully he can have a mega start

[Zynerji]

The thin Mexico city air puts to bed the weak engine argument at least.

It was always a drag issue after the porpoising. I wanted Mercs design to work, as it was paradigm shifting. I hope they keep it and trouble the podium regularly in 23.

Great Q2, good to see a shake-up in the top 3. Congrats to all!

[johnny comelately]

re Q2 and the helicopter shots even the Honda engined cars have trouble accelerating that 800+kg out of the slow speed corners.

[Zynerji]

re Q2 and the helicopter shots even the Honda engined cars have trouble accelerating that 800+kg out of the slow speed corners.

These cars look so unintuitive to drive in these slow speed corners. If I was in rFactor and my car handled like those, I'd definitely make changes. Sling the chassis like a jackrabbit instead of a jaguar. Terlingua!

[mendis]

[algebraist]

The thin Mexico city air puts to bed the weak engine argument at least.

What does that have to do with anything? For years, Mexico was an equalizer for the awful Renault and Honda engines.

It has EVERYTHING to do with it. Mexico City is 7200 feet (or roughly 2195 meters) above sea level which is about a mile and-a-half up in the sky. There's roughly 20% less oxygen in the air, so the turbos on the cars have to work 20% harder to get the same level of oxygen into the combustion chamber. That means the cars with the bigger turbos have an advantage, mixed in with how old those turbos are etc.

There's also the impact of high altitude on air pressure, thus car aero will be also ... you guessed it ... 20% less effective. If the post about Ferrari having to protect their turbos and then dropping aero to compensate, they're in big trouble.

In the past the cars were normally aspirated so everyone was 20% less power. Now it really is down to how good your air intakes and turbo compressors are. There's battery use impacts potentially as well as the anti lag will also have to work harder.

So false equivalency you're drawing here.

[johnny comelately]

The thin Mexico city air puts to bed the weak engine argument at least.

What does that have to do with anything? For years, Mexico was an equalizer for the awful Renault and Honda engines.

It has EVERYTHING to do with it. Mexico City is 7200 feet (or roughly 2195 meters) above sea level which is about a mile and-a-half up in the sky. There's roughly 20% less oxygen in the air, so the turbos on the cars have to work 20% harder to get the same level of oxygen into the combustion chamber. That means the cars with the bigger turbos have an advantage, mixed in with how old those turbos are etc.

There's also the impact of high altitude on air pressure, thus car aero will be also ... you guessed it ... 20% less effective. If the post about Ferrari having to protect their turbos and then dropping aero to compensate, they're in big trouble.

In the past the cars were normally aspirated so everyone was 20% less power. Now it really is down to how good your air intakes and turbo compressors are. There's battery use impacts potentially as well as the anti lag will also have to work harder.

So false equivalency you're drawing here.

Can you algebraically prove that

[mendis]

The thin Mexico city air puts to bed the weak engine argument at least.

What does that have to do with anything? For years, Mexico was an equalizer for the awful Renault and Honda engines.

It has EVERYTHING to do with it. Mexico City is 7200 feet (or roughly 2195 meters) above sea level which is about a mile and-a-half up in the sky. There's roughly 20% less oxygen in the air, so the turbos on the cars have to work 20% harder to get the same level of oxygen into the combustion chamber. That means the cars with the bigger turbos have an advantage, mixed in with how old those turbos are etc.

There's also the impact of high altitude on air pressure, thus car aero will be also ... you guessed it ... 20% less effective. If the post about Ferrari having to protect their turbos and then dropping aero to compensate, they're in big trouble.

In the past the cars were normally aspirated so everyone was 20% less power. Now it really is down to how good your air intakes and turbo compressors are. There's battery use impacts potentially as well as the anti lag will also have to work harder.

So false equivalency you're drawing here.

All good. AMUs reporting that Ferrari has turned down the engine to protect the turbo. Who is to say RB hasn't done that? RB18 top speed was 349 whereas W13 did 344. Last race they had a difference of 12 kph in USA!

[algebraist]

Can you algebraically prove that

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Algebraist

*golf clap*

[algebraist]

Here's Jonathan Palmer in 1990 explaining Mexico.

https://youtu.be/7TzgmWP7D7s?t=462

Apparently it's 25% less, not 20.

[Tommy Cookers]

... It has EVERYTHING to do with it. Mexico City is 7200 feet (or roughly 2195 meters) above sea level ....
There's roughly 20% less oxygen in the air, so the turbos on the cars have to work 20% harder to get the same level of oxygen into the combustion chamber.

there isn't 20% less oxygen in the air .... there's 20% less air in the air

actually there's more % oxygen in M C air - because at altitude there's almost no water vapour
unlike eg Singapore air (which contains c.7% water vapour)

it's the compressor that has to work harder (and higher rpm) in M C
(delivering the same mass of air starting at lower pressure is less efficient)

the turbines don't have a problem (except if they aren't safe at the higher rpm)
(the forward (exhaust) pressure is unchanged and the back pressure (atmospheric) is 20% less)

[wogx]

[Juzh]

a very detailed telemetry comparison:


- RB gains around 2 tenths on straights, down from 4-5 tenths in COTA
- mercedes is much faster in medium/high speed corners trough sector 2, up to 11 kmh advantage
- RB is better in S3 and specifically on traction out of T13-14-T15 complex, gaining 2 tenths there

[InsaneX_Badger]

a very detailed telemetry comparison:


- RB gains around 2 tenths on straights, down from 4-5 tenths in COTA
- mercedes is much faster in medium/high speed corners trough sector 2, up to 11 kmh advantage
- RB is better in S3 and specifically on traction out of T13-14-T15 complex, gaining 2 tenths there

So if we want an entertaining race Juzh, we need to hope that Mercedes can use their med/high speed advantage in the race to keep within DRS of max to mitigate the straight line advantage, without destroying their tyres?