2010 regulation row on £40m budget cap

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modbaraban
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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donskar wrote:Do you agree with me that new/small teams do not have the right to enter because they don't have the money?
It's a compelte mystery to me. Why drag F1 down to the level of GP2 for GP2 teams to enter when there is GP2 already available? It's just pointless. Just close this Formula1 dinosaur and let Williams and everyone else join the GP2 grid

Conceptual
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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If I was the FIA, I would just get FOTA and the FOM contracted saying that they (FOTA/FOM) were responsible for all regulations, marketing, TV, cars, races and the policing of these things, while guaranteeing 16+ races and 24 car grids with current safety standards.

Then I would stand back and watch them do all of the work, and be done with it.

Let the FOTA/FOM fight it out, they are the ones that actually DO the job, so they have the best perspective on how it should be done!

If Bernie is the F1 Commercial Rights older, I would make the FOTA the Materials and Labor Rights holder. That way it would bring balance to the force...

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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modbaraban wrote:
donskar wrote:Do you agree with me that new/small teams do not have the right to enter because they don't have the money?
It's a compelte mystery to me. Why drag F1 down to the level of GP2 for GP2 teams to enter when there is GP2 already available? It's just pointless. Just close this Formula1 dinosaur and let Williams and everyone else join the GP2 grid
a 100 mil $ budget including engines, drivers and promotion is about 50 times what you need in GP2 and 200 times what you need in F2. so those remarks are a bit iffy.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

modbaraban
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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WhiteBlue wrote:a 100 mil $ budget including engines, drivers and promotion is about 50 times what you need in GP2 and 200 times what you need in F2. so those remarks are a bit iffy.
Oh thanks. Now I get it. They need something as bad as GP2 but 50 times pricier. That makes sence.

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De Jokke
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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Let them leave, with pleasure. They harmed F1 enough with their pro FIARRARI status.

"let my people go" :lol:
Mercedes AMG + Hamilton => dreamteam!
If you can't beat'em, call Masi!

puttenham
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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Has Ferrari announced a date and time when they will be auctioning off their tools and tool boxes? I need some things although I may have a fight with Campos and USF1.
puttenham

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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Times
Mercedes take initiative in Formula One row
Edward Gorman, Motor Racing Correspondent

Norbert Haug, the little-known vice-president of Mercedes-Benz Motorsport, is on the verge of being hailed as the man who made the breakthrough in the Formula One crisis over the FIA's determination to introduce a budget cap on team expenditure.

Like the United Nations, Acas and Henry Kissinger rolled into one, Haug and his colleagues in Stuttgart have come up with a compromise proposal that appears to be flexible and subtle enough to satisfy the teams and Max Mosley, the president of the FIA.

Mosley wanted to bring in his cap next season and set it at £40 million, which led to several teams, among them Ferrari, threatening not to enter the championship in 2010. Haug's plan - the “Mercedes initiative” - allows the teams to spend no more than £100 million next season, in return for which they will offer help to new teams, in terms of cheap components and shared expertise. In addition, the teams will commit to Formula One until the end of 2012 and will agree to operate under a £40 million cap from 2011.

Mosley has written to the teams indicating that he views Haug's plan as a positive step forward because, although the budget cap will be much higher than he envisaged next season, the Mercedes plan offers what one source close to him called “clarity and certainty” over the future of the sport and a much tighter budgetary environment from 2011.

Haug's plan was first discussed during meetings in Monaco last weekend. The teams met at Heathrow yesterday to agree their response to Mosley's letter and there was optimism last night that a deal could be in place in time for most, if not all of them, to enter next year's championship by the FIA deadline of tomorrow.

A Formula One Teams Association official said the meeting had been positive. “For sure there will be developments in the next 48 hours,” he said.
This sounds to me as if some manufacturers and the FIA are capable of a compromise which progresses towards the objectives of both sides. Hopefully the customer support will be sufficient to convince the new teams that they will face stable operating conditions with a chance to be competitive.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

Conceptual
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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WhiteBlue wrote:Times
Mercedes take initiative in Formula One row
Edward Gorman, Motor Racing Correspondent

Norbert Haug, the little-known vice-president of Mercedes-Benz Motorsport, is on the verge of being hailed as the man who made the breakthrough in the Formula One crisis over the FIA's determination to introduce a budget cap on team expenditure.

Like the United Nations, Acas and Henry Kissinger rolled into one, Haug and his colleagues in Stuttgart have come up with a compromise proposal that appears to be flexible and subtle enough to satisfy the teams and Max Mosley, the president of the FIA.

Mosley wanted to bring in his cap next season and set it at £40 million, which led to several teams, among them Ferrari, threatening not to enter the championship in 2010. Haug's plan - the “Mercedes initiative” - allows the teams to spend no more than £100 million next season, in return for which they will offer help to new teams, in terms of cheap components and shared expertise. In addition, the teams will commit to Formula One until the end of 2012 and will agree to operate under a £40 million cap from 2011.

Mosley has written to the teams indicating that he views Haug's plan as a positive step forward because, although the budget cap will be much higher than he envisaged next season, the Mercedes plan offers what one source close to him called “clarity and certainty” over the future of the sport and a much tighter budgetary environment from 2011.

Haug's plan was first discussed during meetings in Monaco last weekend. The teams met at Heathrow yesterday to agree their response to Mosley's letter and there was optimism last night that a deal could be in place in time for most, if not all of them, to enter next year's championship by the FIA deadline of tomorrow.

A Formula One Teams Association official said the meeting had been positive. “For sure there will be developments in the next 48 hours,” he said.
This sounds to me as if some manufacturers and the FIA are capable of a compromise which progresses towards the objectives of both sides. Hopefully the customer support will be sufficient to convince the new teams that they will face stable operating conditions with a chance to be competitive.

OMFG!!!

Does this mean that the 2010 regs stand, and we are going to have 100M cars with uncorked engines (that dont count towards the 100m!!!) with the AWD, active aero and double KERS assistance?!!?!?!?!

I could KISS Haug!

I hope everyone gets smart tho... Just pulling the plug on 2009, and letting Brawn to take the WCC/WDC, and start on 2010 right now.

modbaraban
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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Can anyone explain the following: why would Ferrari and Toyota (and others) suddenly start to like the idea of a 40m budget cup in 2011?
Conceptual wrote:OMFG!!!

Does this mean that the 2010 regs stand, and we are going to have 100M cars with uncorked engines (that dont count towards the 100m!!!) with the AWD, active aero and double KERS assistance?!!?!?!?!
Dream on. #-o

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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I would assume that the uncapped rules will apply. This was the request by the teams. They may all sign a new concord agreement including the FIA if reports in AMuS are correct.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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If so qual speeds will be off the charts next year and with some new teams & drivers we could see some serious accidents

timbo
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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I wonder what engine budgets would be...
With unlimited engines it may rise even if engines are frozen.
And customer teams would have to pay more to keep up - not what Williams probably wanted.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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“I am willing to compromise,” Mosley told Italian newspaper La Gazzetta dello Sport, “but only if small and new teams can operate with much lower budgets and are not much slower than the others. I am very optimistic about a solution. The big and small teams have very different interests, and we have to protect everyone.
“Will Ferrari enter by Friday? I think so. I am optimistic and confident. Ferrari is very important for Formula 1, but Formula 1 is very important for Ferrari as well.”
It would be a big surprise if they do not take the deal. All the main objections have been adressed. So all teams can run equally under the uncapped rules and pretty much nothing changes except refuelling and customer cars for one year. Effectively the 2010 budget would be somewhere around 150 - 170 mil € counting all in that can be taken out.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

u401768
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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if they are going that far - why not let the teams (if they want) have 1 customer team like Red Bull and STR

So McLaren – Pro Drive again.

Ferrari could enter Scuderia Maserati or Scuderia After Romeo as a 2nd team

More teams, spread the budget cap so make it more achievable for Ferrari and McLaren (use the personal they would loose in the new teams), and we all get good racing.

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: Ferrari to pull out of F1 next year

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there is nothing stopping them from doing that now, but the rule stopping customer cars kicks in next year, unless this comprimise goes thru... we very well might see McMerc customer cars, or even BRAWN!

regardless Renault & Toyota look as good as gone... but Flav will buyout the renault squad... who will buy Toyota... one of these new teams would be wise to look into what toyota wants for all that technology they have put into the german site, or maybe TOYO will shift to LE mans racing