2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[harty71]

The team were quite open that Hamilton was running extreme experimental stuff like floors that just didn't work. Russell was doing some experimental work too but to a less extreme extent.

However, that doesn't detract from the fact that Russell has done a great job over the whole season and is to be applauded for it.

It's particularly interesting that Hamilton hasn't thrown his toys around this season, unlike some drivers when they are having a bad run.

Yes, in practice maybe, I'm sure he had the opportunity to revert if the setup was duff though.

Why would the team want to use setups that clearly aren't working in practice, I very much doubt they are that inept.

If he started throwing a strop he would only alienate himself from the team and would receive a lot of stick from the press.

Let's not kid ourselves, losing out to Russell will be hurting him, that I have no doubt.

They were doing things to try to figure out what would / wouldn't affect the issue. As a shooting instructor said to us once - if it isn't working, try something different even if it seems weird. Just doing the same thing over and over will give you the same bad result.

I think Hamilton is secure enough in himself and his position in the team to not feel hurt at all, to be honest. He knows that this year was never going to be a normal season. And after the pain of having the title stolen from him by the RD in AD21, I don't think this season has been anything other than him trying to help the team get back so he can fight for that rightful 8th title.

If they have a proper car next year, I expect to see tensions arise between the Merc drivers as that will be a proper test of their relationship.

Props to Mercedes for allowing this, driver pairings like this don't happen often at all.

I don't think RB would dream of allowing someone like Norris, Alonso or Leclerc partner Max and give them equal treatment.

[MadMax]

Yes, in practice maybe, I'm sure he had the opportunity to revert if the setup was duff though.

Why would the team want to use setups that clearly aren't working in practice, I very much doubt they are that inept.

If he started throwing a strop he would only alienate himself from the team and would receive a lot of stick from the press.

Let's not kid ourselves, losing out to Russell will be hurting him, that I have no doubt.

They were doing things to try to figure out what would / wouldn't affect the issue. As a shooting instructor said to us once - if it isn't working, try something different even if it seems weird. Just doing the same thing over and over will give you the same bad result.

I think Hamilton is secure enough in himself and his position in the team to not feel hurt at all, to be honest. He knows that this year was never going to be a normal season. And after the pain of having the title stolen from him by the RD in AD21, I don't think this season has been anything other than him trying to help the team get back so he can fight for that rightful 8th title.

If they have a proper car next year, I expect to see tensions arise between the Merc drivers as that will be a proper test of their relationship.

Props to Mercedes for allowing this, driver pairings like this don't happen often at all.

I don't think RB would dream of allowing someone like Norris, Alonso or Leclerc partner Max and give them equal treatment.

Props to (whatever that means) Hamilton for running with it too. Not all top drivers would be happy to do so.

[harty71]

They were doing things to try to figure out what would / wouldn't affect the issue. As a shooting instructor said to us once - if it isn't working, try something different even if it seems weird. Just doing the same thing over and over will give you the same bad result.

I think Hamilton is secure enough in himself and his position in the team to not feel hurt at all, to be honest. He knows that this year was never going to be a normal season. And after the pain of having the title stolen from him by the RD in AD21, I don't think this season has been anything other than him trying to help the team get back so he can fight for that rightful 8th title.

If they have a proper car next year, I expect to see tensions arise between the Merc drivers as that will be a proper test of their relationship.

Props to Mercedes for allowing this, driver pairings like this don't happen often at all.

I don't think RB would dream of allowing someone like Norris, Alonso or Leclerc partner Max and give them equal treatment.

Props to (whatever that means) Hamilton for running with it too. Not all top drivers would be happy to do so.

I'm not sure he had a choice on the matter.

Nevertheless, he could have retired but instead he chose to take on Russell.

[RonMexico]

Yes, in practice maybe, I'm sure he had the opportunity to revert if the setup was duff though.

Why would the team want to use setups that clearly aren't working in practice, I very much doubt they are that inept.

If he started throwing a strop he would only alienate himself from the team and would receive a lot of stick from the press.

Let's not kid ourselves, losing out to Russell will be hurting him, that I have no doubt.

They were doing things to try to figure out what would / wouldn't affect the issue. As a shooting instructor said to us once - if it isn't working, try something different even if it seems weird. Just doing the same thing over and over will give you the same bad result.

I think Hamilton is secure enough in himself and his position in the team to not feel hurt at all, to be honest. He knows that this year was never going to be a normal season. And after the pain of having the title stolen from him by the RD in AD21, I don't think this season has been anything other than him trying to help the team get back so he can fight for that rightful 8th title.

If they have a proper car next year, I expect to see tensions arise between the Merc drivers as that will be a proper test of their relationship.

Props to Mercedes for allowing this, driver pairings like this don't happen often at all.

I don't think RB would dream of allowing someone like Norris, Alonso or Leclerc partner Max and give them equal treatment.

Red Bull approached Norris a few times recently and had talks with Alonso before he signed for Renault/Alpine.

Vettel was their guy and then they put their fastest junior in the seat beside him and we all know what happened. They couldn't wait to put Verstappen into the team to challenge Riccardo.

If RB had Russell or Norris as juniors one of them would be in RB now. Verstappen destroyed Gasly and Albon.

Their junior program just hasn't produced anyone good enough for quite a while.

RB might get Leclerc yet

[GSBellew]

I'm sure the team will have some quantifiable number for it in their debrief video!

I don't think we ever heard Hamilton or the team mention that the car was damaged during the race, I'd guess it was superficial at worst.

Lewis asked for them to check over the team radio immediately after if memory serves.

Lewis asked, they replied along the lines of all looks ok and mentioned something about from what they could see on TV pictures.

[zibby43]

That I agree, there's been nothing between them all year. Still, that doesn't help Hamilton's profile, quite the opposite for me.

Should the greatest of all time be struggling so much with a driver in his first season in the team, not in my view.

It's a stretch calling someone the GOAT when it's not even apparent he's the best driver in his own team.

Seems you have an axe to grind with Lewis more than anything.

Its his first season in the team but its every drivers first season with these new cars, tyres and wheels.

I wouldn't quantify Lewis as struggling, certainly not in the second half of the season and only in terms of execution (not pace) in the first half of the season. The first half is marred by too many circumstantial elements and variables that were against Lewis on weekends -and inflated George's points haul in the standings several times beyond merit of actually beating Hamilton by his driving) but also against his intention. George is there to shine in his first season in a top fighting team. That's what hes more concerned with; not being in Lewis' shadow. Lewis on the other hand is in his finals years of F1 and is desperate to have the oppertunity to fight for titles before he retires.

The team were in a dire situation this year, in their quest to help him on that campaign with the W13 and himself and the team have taken it upon themselves to especially use his weekends to learn the car, gather data and get the ball rolling in fixing where they went wrong. Focusing on the big picture and getting the team back all the way to the top is where his mindset is.

George's is inevitably been on comfort with the car despite experiments, and getting best results because hes eager to prove he belongs in a top team and with Hamilton.

Its not a coincidence that as soon as Hamilton started to focus on his own performances some more, he started to stay ahead of George consistently.

For one reason or another (DRS failure in Hungary, Georges Spin in the Brazil Qualifying) George has circumstantially had the upper hand to deliver the better result on the weekends where Mercedes had their best shot at Pole, Victory etc. For whatever reason, pretty much all of Lewis' best shots have been undone by poorly timed safety cars (Silverstone, Zandvoort etc)

I just think people are quantifying too big of an opinion on either of them yet. As soon as George is in Lewis' shadow, hes no longer the promising top talent and future Champion. Soon as he has a good result, its back to hyping him up and using that to say Lewis is ordinary and not worthy of his success. It's quite irrational, What are we saying about Alonso if this ordinary driver so comfortably had Alonso under control as a Rookie? The only explanation for that is those irrational conspiracy theories Alonso peddled about sabotage.

You're putting subjective and circumstantial evidence forward, one could do the same for Alonso in 2007.

If Hamilton hadn't had broken protocol in Hungary, Alonso would have kept his head and held on to pole.

If Ron Dennis didn't make it clear "We are racing Alonso" then people may not have bought all the conspiracy theories that season.

When the car was difficult you would expect the driver with the star qualities to shine, in reality the opposite happened, Russell shone and Hamilton struggled like mad.

At the end of the day there's been nothing between them performance wise over the course of the season, I just expected more from the most successful driver of all time.

Actually the data suggests otherwise. You’ve outed yourself in a big way trying to argue to the contrary. We’d be celebrating a likely Hamilton win in Brazil if Max doesn’t do a Max special.

I say that as a huge fan of George. It’s really remarkable they’re so close on points despite all the weird bad luck and random occurrences Hamilton endured to start the season.

And that’s not even considering/mentioning all the experimental setups Hamilton volunteered for to start the season while George was given what they knew worked to help him acclimate.

[uchihaigor1701]

You guys are too much comedy analyze racing situations without looking at what happened? Do you only look at the metric of the points? The Mercedes car was born bad, what's the use of crashing with a teammate to reach 5, 6? Hamilton did his part as team leader and George did a great job of winning those points. Let's see when they have the top car what they can do. And I say Russel will only challenge in Classification and he will be swallowed up in the race. Could the anti-Hamilton geniuses explain after the Test Russell disappeared? Let's see when the car is fighting for the title who will be Alpha in the team.

[harty71]

Experiments, sacrifice, not interested if it isn't for first, the list goes on.

I'm sorry, the first objective is to beat your teammate, he's the only true & fair comparison.

Russell has been more consistent, he's had more highs and less lows, the points tally shows that.

[PlatinumZealot]

Hamilton'a had two tenths worth of damage the engineers say. It was sorta obvious that Hamilton allowed the win. He showed what he could do by getting into Russell's DRS at will and then backing out. What we saw was a generous leader who is handing over the baton.

[mendis]

Hamilton'a had two tenths worth of damage the engineers say. It was sorta obvious that Hamilton allowed the win. He showed what he could do by getting into Russell's DRS at will and then backing out. What we saw was a generous leader who is handing over the baton.

You have got the jokes!

[Hammerfist]

I don't know how anyone could have watched this entire season and decide that Russell outperformed Hamilton.
There has not been one race all year where George has undoubtedly shown superior pace than Lewis. He has shown better one lap pace at times. That's about it. The race pace has been consistently in Hamilton's favor.
Even if we do not fall for the experiments excuse, the way Russell won some races earlier in the season was due to pure luck where Hamilton was ahead and a safety car bailed Russell out.
But there have certainly been occasions where Lewis has been in another league in terms of race pace. Enter Spain, Hungary and Canada.
While there has not been one race all year where Russell has looked dominant over Hamilton. He is sometimes equal, but most of the time he has been slower.
The only one that looked like Russell was much faster was Imola, but Lewis was stuck in a DRS train and chose not to risk the pass, because at that point of the season he certainly felt they needed the lap data, so completing the race distance was the priority. While Russell was his agressive self and got by the slower cars with some bold moves and had a great result. He did have to hold on for dear life when a charging Bottas was catching him towards the end though. Suggesting to me at least that his pace overall was not that great on that occasion. A Merc should not have been threatened by an Alfa Romeo.
Russell definitely has been able to string up some strong results, but he has also shown a propensity to throw it away. Let's not kid ourselves, he's had trouble at the start of races, and even before this weekend his race craft was being questioned.
I would agree that it is true that if a title is on the line Lewis historically ups his game. Whenever his back is against the wall he has shown to up his level. Just look at the end of the 2014, 2016 and 2021 seasons as prime examples. Conversely when he is not in contention or the title has already been decided he has a tendency to let his foot off the gas; See 2013, 2015, when he was mediocre by his standards to end those seasons.
Can Russell beat Hamilton next year if the car is championship worthy? Yes, of course. Anything can happen, especially if reliability is a factor . Also Lewis is not getting any younger and he may start to lose it a little bit, but I have not seen anything this year that suggests he is going to fall off. He is still one of the very best drivers in F1. But sometimes luck trumps all those things. I think it's going to be a very exciting season in F1 next year even with the other teams as it looks like Max just created an intra team rivalry so I'll have my popcorn ready.

[mendis]

Can Russell beat Hamilton next year if the car is championship worthy? Yes, of course. Anything can happen, especially if reliability is a factor . Also Lewis is not getting any younger and he may start to lose it a little bit, but I have not seen anything this year that suggests he is going to fall off. He is still one of the very best drivers in F1. But sometimes luck trumps all those things. I think it's going to be a very exciting season in F1 next year even with the other teams as it looks like Max just created an intra team rivalry so I'll have my popcorn ready.

If Lewis chooses to stay on grid and compete, his age cannot be an excuse for losing, if he does. It's his choice.

[harty71]

I don't know how anyone could have watched this entire season and decide that Russell outperformed Hamilton.
There has not been one race all year where George has undoubtedly shown superior pace than Lewis. He has shown better one lap pace at times. That's about it. The race pace has been consistently in Hamilton's favor.
Even if we do not fall for the experiments excuse, the way Russell won some races earlier in the season was due to pure luck where Hamilton was ahead and a safety car bailed Russell out.
But there have certainly been occasions where Lewis has been in another league in terms of race pace. Enter Spain, Hungary and Canada.
While there has not been one race all year where Russell has looked dominant over Hamilton. He is sometimes equal, but most of the time he has been slower.
The only one that looked like Russell was much faster was Imola, but Lewis was stuck in a DRS train and chose not to risk the pass, because at that point of the season he certainly felt they needed the lap data, so completing the race distance was the priority. While Russell was his agressive self and got by the slower cars with some bold moves and had a great result. He did have to hold on for dear life when a charging Bottas was catching him towards the end though. Suggesting to me at least that his pace overall was not that great on that occasion. A Merc should not have been threatened by an Alfa Romeo.
Russell definitely has been able to string up some strong results, but he has also shown a propensity to throw it away. Let's not kid ourselves, he's had trouble at the start of races, and even before this weekend his race craft was being questioned.
I would agree that it is true that if a title is on the line Lewis historically ups his game. Whenever his back is against the wall he has shown to up his level. Just look at the end of the 2014, 2016 and 2021 seasons as prime examples. Conversely when he is not in contention or the title has already been decided he has a tendency to let his foot off the gas; See 2013, 2015, when he was mediocre by his standards to end those seasons.
Can Russell beat Hamilton next year if the car is championship worthy? Yes, of course. Anything can happen, especially if reliability is a factor . Also Lewis is not getting any younger and he may start to lose it a little bit, but I have not seen anything this year that suggests he is going to fall off. He is still one of the very best drivers in F1. But sometimes luck trumps all those things. I think it's going to be a very exciting season in F1 next year even with the other teams as it looks like Max just created an intra team rivalry so I'll have my popcorn ready.

The races you mentioned are hard to judge because they were in completely different races, the situation matters.

Like for like there's been nothing really between them and many races have been determined by track position, Mexico being a fine example, Russell was actually faster than Hamilton and had better tyre life but he could not utilise it and fell even further behind due to the undercut.

If that means that Russell is already on par with the most successful driver ever then that is an amazing achievement to say it's his first season with the team.

[Henri]

Good progress by the team.. but as Lewis said the car is 1 sec slower than its true potential

[DGP123]

I don't know how anyone could have watched this entire season and decide that Russell outperformed Hamilton.

Completely agree