2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
User avatar
mclaren111
280
Joined: 06 Apr 2014, 10:49
Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

Post

https://www.racefans.net/2023/02/25/the ... t-of-2023/


Interesting numbers from testing...

User avatar
mwillems
44
Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

Post

SmallSoldier wrote:
26 Feb 2023, 07:51
swifteddie1 wrote:
26 Feb 2023, 05:45
PhillipM wrote:
26 Feb 2023, 02:05
No it's more just things they've seen already on cars they were hoping were behind them that are basically easy bits of laptime without much downside, that's why they're kicking themselves a bit. It's not magic massive differences, it'll maybe just put them clear to the front of the midfield where they wanted to be again.
As always thanks for your insight. Any idea where the team thinks they are in the pecking order? From your comment above i'm inferring that they believe they are in the upper half of the midfield and if they had gotten these things that will come in Baku then they will be clear of the midfield?

Is there any truth to what has been reported that they stopped development on the MCL60 a couple of months ago and that the Baku update is essentially a change in aerodynamic philosophy and a B version of the MCL60?
I don’t think there is a B Version of the MCL60, found the quote from Stella:

McLaren has not adjusted its goals despite the unsuccessful start: "We want to finish fourth. It's a long season." The first major package is targeted for Baku. It doesn't necessarily have to be a B version. "A few smaller areas have a pretty big impact on lap times. If we change those, it doesn't necessarily mean we'll have a fundamentally different car."

What has happened is that for example, they were working on a front wing for the current package and they discovered late the loophole that allows you to have small flaps to connect the elements of the front wing to the end plates and the potential to add a few winglets in that location (what we are seeing from Mercedes for example), therefore they stop the work on the wing they were working on to start design, CFD, wind tunnel and ultimately manufacturing of the new wing (those flaps + winglet greatly helps create vortexes that help manage front tire wake).

Since the front wing dictates a lot of your downstream aero, the new wing will have an effect on what you need to do in the floor, which also implies changes to the floor edge for example… Since they found this late and there are several parts that probably need to be introduced simultaneously for them to work as intended, they won’t have all of them ready until Baku… In addition, since there is a month gap between Race 3 and Race 4 it makes sense to push development / analysis of the new path as much as possible (also considering the cost cap), they could have had an interim wing / floor to use, but it doesn’t make sense to manufacture them and introduce them for only 3 races if you know you can have better parts early into the season.
If my reasoning stands up it is a very smart move. It is quite possible they were going to meet the Dev targets if they continued with the previous design, but when they realised the design of this and other parts could be superseded and would exceed the performance of the older parts then they dropped the older designs.

The team need to get the fastest car possible by the end of the season to be a platform for next year or to be able to switch to the new car earlier. Places are not their priority.

By not continuing with an obsolete design just to get it on the car to just have more pace at the seasons start, the team have sacrificed initial pace for a more aggressive development path that will end the season with a quicker car that we would have if we had continued with the obsolete parts. They would have cost more time and money to implement. The moment they aren't needed they are dropped. We now have that time and money under the cap back and we will get to a faster spec quicker than we would have if we wasted time with designs we were going to drop.

The fact that the team are beating themselves up that they didn't see it sooner doesn't suggest to me that it is anything more than an aggressive team who want to do well.

I personally would want the team to work in this manner. As I have said, I do not care about the points finishing season this year, I only care about the car finishing the season as 4th and biting on the ankles of 3rd, ready for a new season where we can push on and fight for regular podiums.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

User avatar
djos
113
Joined: 19 May 2006, 06:09
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

Post

It’s the right thing to do, it’s just frustrating that they didn’t realise this a lot earlier.
"In downforce we trust"

User avatar
mclaren111
280
Joined: 06 Apr 2014, 10:49
Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

Post

Do we know if MCL60 have fixed the understeer problem ?

User avatar
djos
113
Joined: 19 May 2006, 06:09
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

Post

mclaren111 wrote:
26 Feb 2023, 11:40
Do we know if MCL60 have fixed the understeer problem ?
It doesn’t sound like it:
“I think the issues we’ve got [are] probably pretty similar to last year, I think I’m also still getting up to speed with how I need to drive to extract the most out of the car.
“I think in terms of feeling of performance it’s I would say a small step from last year.
https://apple.news/Ay_-mbqAoT-awm6R-JTxhRA
"In downforce we trust"

Ben1980
Ben1980
1
Joined: 19 Jun 2022, 10:11

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

Post

Realistically 4th is the maximum. I doubt anyone expects the team to jump the big three. So, I'd be surprised if Aston Alpine or any others make an insurmountable gap in the initial 3 races. Assuming no major mess ups from the top teams.

Lucky
Lucky
157
Joined: 15 Feb 2014, 09:23

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

Post

Ben1980 wrote:
26 Feb 2023, 12:06
Realistically 4th is the maximum. I doubt anyone expects the team to jump the big three. So, I'd be surprised if Aston Alpine or any others make an insurmountable gap in the initial 3 races. Assuming no major mess ups from the top teams.
Aston had an excellent simulation of the race. They will be very fast.

User avatar
mwillems
44
Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

Post

djos wrote:
26 Feb 2023, 11:38
It’s the right thing to do, it’s just frustrating that they didn’t realise this a lot earlier.
We only have their word on the fact that they should have seen it earlier. Perhaps they should, perhaps they shouldn't, but I suppose you can always see things in hindsight and think how obvious it was and kick yourself.

My view that I will carry forward is that this is an annoyance to the start of the season but that the team have made the right call.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

User avatar
mwillems
44
Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

Post

Lucky wrote:
26 Feb 2023, 12:17
Ben1980 wrote:
26 Feb 2023, 12:06
Realistically 4th is the maximum. I doubt anyone expects the team to jump the big three. So, I'd be surprised if Aston Alpine or any others make an insurmountable gap in the initial 3 races. Assuming no major mess ups from the top teams.
Aston had an excellent simulation of the race. They will be very fast.
If we are carrying the same kind of car as last year but a little faster, then this track could make us look worse than we are on average over the season, possibly.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

Ben1980
Ben1980
1
Joined: 19 Jun 2022, 10:11

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

Post

Lucky wrote:
26 Feb 2023, 12:17
Ben1980 wrote:
26 Feb 2023, 12:06
Realistically 4th is the maximum. I doubt anyone expects the team to jump the big three. So, I'd be surprised if Aston Alpine or any others make an insurmountable gap in the initial 3 races. Assuming no major mess ups from the top teams.
They may well be. But I dont expect them to be matching the big 3 over the season.
Aston had an excellent simulation of the race. They will be very fast.

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
559
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

Post

It didn't feel good, and he seemed almost mad being so negative in during his introduction, but I perfectly understand why Andrea Stella has played down expectations. They really had a crap development... Looks like team troubles.

And at the same time it make me wonder why Seidl left? Notice Stella seemd to be thrust into the principal role at short notice.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

Racing Green in 2028

Ben1980
Ben1980
1
Joined: 19 Jun 2022, 10:11

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote:
26 Feb 2023, 14:19
It didn't feel good, and he seemed almost mad being so negative in during his introduction, but I perfectly understand why Andrea Stella has played down expectations. They really had a crap development... Looks like team troubles.

And at the same time it make me wonder why Seidl left? Notice Stella seemd to be thrust into the principal role at short notice.
Didn't Siedl leave because he got a promotion, more money and a chance to return to his home country with his family?

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
559
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

Post

He could have waited IMO.. He should have more than enough time to work with Audi. That deal was basically done. The factory is aleady there. The only thing is the engine. And Seidle doesn't really have much to do there.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

Racing Green in 2028

User avatar
organic
1055
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote:
26 Feb 2023, 14:51
He could have waited IMO.. He should have more than enough time to work with Audi. That deal was basically done. The factory is aleady there. The only thing is the engine. And Seidle doesn't really have much to do there.
It was said on the coverage that it was the initial plan to leave McLaren much later - for 2026 (?) - but Audi wanted him now

CjC
CjC
12
Joined: 03 Jul 2012, 20:13

Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

Post

PlatinumZealot wrote:
26 Feb 2023, 14:51
He could have waited IMO.. He should have more than enough time to work with Audi. That deal was basically done. The factory is aleady there. The only thing is the engine. And Seidle doesn't really have much to do there.
Nah, having a man at the helm who’s future lies with another team is fruitless, even the most professional person wouldn’t be committed to the Mclaren cause.
Fair play to Seidl to hand in his notice of intent so early and fair play to both parties for handling it so amicably.
I’m disappointed he’s left but I’m glad he’s gone so soon under these circumstances
Just a fan's point of view