Drilling holes

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
User avatar
safeaschuck
1
Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 07:18

Re: drilling holes

Post

I don't think that part would be very expensive to produce on a lathe, the design work is the same for either method and given that they will probably need at least a dozen for various chassis etc I'm sure it would be turned, and out of Ti probably.

When your car is on fire and you need to get out you would want it to be made of Steel or Ti not epoxy! I know it's not going to melt/combust the second a flame touches it but I wouldn't dream of suggesting using anything with inferior mechanical properties based on a small cost saving for that particular part.

riff_raff
riff_raff
132
Joined: 24 Dec 2004, 10:18

Re: drilling holes

Post

With regards to the picture of the steering wheel release bar, that part is likely aluminum and the holes may be for lightening, or they may also be there to give the driver a tactile cue that his fingers are properly positioned to effect a steering wheel release. These types of tactile cues are commonly used for manual control interfaces where the operator's sight may not be available.

The most likely explanation is that the release bar needed to be a certain diameter in order for the driver to safely engage it with a gloved hand, in an emergency condition. After the chief engineer saw how big it was, he instructed the designer to put some lightening holes in it.

Who really knows why some parts are designed the way they are? Have you ever heard the story about the rear wing design on the Plymouth Road Runner Super Bird that raced in NASCAR back in the '70s? It's actually pretty funny.

Regards,
Terry
"Q: How do you make a small fortune in racing?
A: Start with a large one!"

James_graham
James_graham
0
Joined: 08 Apr 2009, 09:00
Location: England

Re: drilling holes

Post

Looking at the release mechanism, it doesn even look metalic, it looks almost ceramic! It has a dull finish to it.

All other metalic components are polished so if that was Ti why would it not be as well?

Just throwing ideas around really.

User avatar
safeaschuck
1
Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 07:18

Re: drilling holes

Post

It could be burnished walnut for all I know, but I doubt it.
Stippled effect would give better grip than polished on gloves is all I can think,

Nice point about tactility there Raff, hadn't thought of that.

SpookTheHamster
SpookTheHamster
0
Joined: 26 Aug 2005, 12:27

Re: drilling holes

Post

kilcoo316 wrote:
James_graham wrote:Hey Guys thought i would add the release is probably a rapid prototyped part, I have seen them on an old Jordan car.

Not a metallic part! it would be too expensive for what it is!
Really?

I have to admit I am somewhat surprised - are their mechanical properties that good?


I'd have thought the FIA would have treated the steering release as a vital safety feature for car evacuation, and would have frowned on any half-measures in that area. But, I suppose there are no mandated materials for it.
The part in question is not load bearing, but it is metal.

Rapid prototype parts can have very good mechanical properties. Look up Windform XT, it's a carbon based SLS material and it gets used a lot all over cars in motorsport.

User avatar
safeaschuck
1
Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 07:18

Re: drilling holes

Post

Oh my, oh my. Firstly thanks Spook, very cool, so is Selective Laser Sintering the most commonly used method of rapid prototyping?

I must bring us back to earth though, technologies like this are only really going to be an advantage where set-up or tooling costs are prohibitively high when making something in a more conventional manner.
If you had to manufacture a press tool to make 1 or 2 parts for example (and by press tool I mean 2 hardened lumps of metal which form the part by being sandwiched around the desired material and being pushed together. Essentially they need the female/negative image of the part machined/eroded inside) then SLS would be great but if all you need is a CNC lathe with powered cutting tools (a turn/mill station if you like) to produce the entire part from raw bar, then that is what will be used.

There is such a proliferation of C.N.C. machining stations that it will be far more competitive to tender this to regular machine shops, not the very few companies who have no doubt forked out well into the 6 figure range or more for an industrial sintering laser.

There must be CNC operative on here to help me out, but in my humble estimation, based on receiving a suitable C.A.D. file, which would be required for rapid prototyping too, you are looking at a half hour - 1 hour initial set up time and maybe 15 mins per part on a lathe from Ti, more like 3 mins p/p if it was from steel??? and the overheads are WAY lower than using an SLS machine i'm sure.

SpookTheHamster
SpookTheHamster
0
Joined: 26 Aug 2005, 12:27

Re: drilling holes

Post

The price range for a laser machine is probably not much different to that of a large 5-axis mill.

The two serve very different purposes, and it depends on the design intent of a given part as to which will be used.

Also remember that with SLS/SLA more than one part can be produced at a time. You have a set volume of goo/powder to work with, and you can fill it with as many or few bits as you like.

You also have almost no limits on shape. Want a hollow sphere? SLS can do that for you. Some of the samples I've seen produced by SLS/SLA companies are crazy.

User avatar
safeaschuck
1
Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 07:18

Re: drilling holes

Post

SpookTheHamster wrote:The price range for a laser machine is probably not much different to that of a large 5-axis mill.
Yeah that may be true but you wouldn't use that machine to produce those parts either. A large 5 axis mill is almost as different in it's capabilities and cost from a turn/mill lathe as a Laser is.
SpookTheHamster wrote:Also remember that with SLS/SLA more than one part can be produced at a time. You have a set volume of goo/powder to work with, and you can fill it with as many or few bits as you like.
Although I'm going out on a limb here I'm going to have to question the ability of SLS to produce multiple parts any quicker than single ones.
I have used a little laser etching machine and whilst you can load a rack of parts to be processed without the need for setting up each time it dosen't actually make the process 'Go' any quicker. Divsion of labour, the machine still only has the same amount of lasers (1 or 2 I guess). In the same way as wikipedia desbribes that SLS works you can see the Laser as the cutting tool, it cannot be in two places at once.
So if this 'multi-part in single cycle' breakthrough is simply to avoid interupting the cycle to re-load parts, human intervention if you will, this can be acheived with the aforementioned 'Big Mill' by using a mounting rack or plain old clamps to load multiple parts/peices of material at once. Even the humble lathe can be accesorised with a bar feed attachment of a pallet loader.

I also happen to think that the overheads of the Big mill will be much lower than a comparativly priced big laser, but that bit I will admit to not being 100% sure on.

SLS is still great though and your right about design intent and stuff there is an increasing need for weird shaped parts particularly in F1, there is a reason that most raw metal comes in round bar form though, because circles are usually best, cheapeast and strongest and able to go round and round if required.
So on the subject of THIS part i remain convinced it is turned.

mx_tifoso
mx_tifoso
0
Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 05:01
Location: North America

Re: drilling holes

Post

Another Ferrari wheel but with slightly different release
Image
Forum guide: read before posting

"You do it, then it's done." - Kimi Räikkönen

Por las buenas soy amigo, por las malas soy campeón.

James_graham
James_graham
0
Joined: 08 Apr 2009, 09:00
Location: England

Re: drilling holes

Post

I would definitely say that that piece doesn't look metallic unless again some sort of coating has not been used!

Windform LX has also been published recently, it uses glass fibres instead of carbon. it is characterized by good surface finish, good UTS and stiffness.

Remember the part can be sub-contracted out rather than made in house!

James_graham
James_graham
0
Joined: 08 Apr 2009, 09:00
Location: England

Re: drilling holes

Post

Hi Guys if you interested in Rapid prototyping there is a Red bull video on f1 live

Michiba
Michiba
4
Joined: 28 Apr 2008, 08:58

Re: drilling holes

Post

has anyone seen RB5's steering wheel lately? It's looking almost like a the steering wheel of a dragster.

SpookTheHamster
SpookTheHamster
0
Joined: 26 Aug 2005, 12:27

Re: drilling holes

Post

Michiba wrote:has anyone seen RB5's steering wheel lately? It's looking almost like a the steering wheel of a dragster.
Picture?

Shrek
Shrek
0
Joined: 05 Jun 2009, 02:11
Location: right here

Re: drilling holes

Post

page 38 of Red bull RB5 on Formula 1 cars (i don't know how to get the picture on here)
Spencer

DaveKillens
DaveKillens
34
Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

Re: drilling holes

Post

Image

Typical of Newey designs, it is minimalist. Nothing on it except what is necessary. Even the LCD display is mounted on the chassis.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.