Silly season 2021-2022-2023

[Cs98]

I see Sergio Perez driving Williams in 2024.

Ricciardo hopefully does a good job over the next 12 races (even in a disjointed Alphatauri) and moves to Red Bull for 2024


Red Bull
 Max Verstappen
 Daniel Ricciardo

Ferrari
 Charles Leclerc
 Carlos Sainz Jr.

Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team
Lewis Hamilton
 George Russell

Aston Martin
 Fernando Alonso
 Lance Stroll

McLaren-Mercedes
 Lando Norris
 Oscar Piastri

Alpine-Renault
 Pierre Gasly
 Esteban Ocon

Williams-Mercedes
 Sergio Pérez
 Alexander Albon

Haas-Ferrari
 Kevin Magnussen
 Nico Hülkenberg

Sauber-Ferrari
 Zhou Guanyu / Mick Schumacher
 Valtteri Bottas

Alfa Romeo-Honda RBPT
Liam Lawson / Alex Palou
Yuki Tsunoda

I can not see Williams taking on Perez, even if they could afford him. He is not a 'fit' for the team, they tend to go for 'chargers' if not looking for cash.

Vesti perhaps.

[Big Tea]

I see Sergio Perez driving Williams in 2024.

Ricciardo hopefully does a good job over the next 12 races (even in a disjointed Alphatauri) and moves to Red Bull for 2024


Red Bull
 Max Verstappen
 Daniel Ricciardo

Ferrari
 Charles Leclerc
 Carlos Sainz Jr.

Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team
Lewis Hamilton
 George Russell

Aston Martin
 Fernando Alonso
 Lance Stroll

McLaren-Mercedes
 Lando Norris
 Oscar Piastri

Alpine-Renault
 Pierre Gasly
 Esteban Ocon

Williams-Mercedes
 Sergio Pérez
 Alexander Albon

Haas-Ferrari
 Kevin Magnussen
 Nico Hülkenberg

Sauber-Ferrari
 Zhou Guanyu / Mick Schumacher
 Valtteri Bottas

Alfa Romeo-Honda RBPT
Liam Lawson / Alex Palou
Yuki Tsunoda

I can not see Williams taking on Perez, even if they could afford him. He is not a 'fit' for the team, they tend to go for 'chargers' if not looking for cash.

Vesti perhaps.

Having said what I did though, they have not had had Vowls in charge until now, so things may be different.
Not sure what sort of tie-in the have with Merc now either.

[djos]

A driver is not top level if he can't handle a bad car, especially when his team mate has.

You can claim that till the cows come home, doesnt make it true.

It is true though. Since when have top level drivers like Prost or Senna or pre-comeback Schumacher or Hamilton or Alonso or Verstappen struggled against their teammates because they didn't like the car characteristics?! At worst, they were only slightly behind even when they didn't like the car characteristics.

Oh, and how did Kimi Raikkonen do in his NASCAR races? He must not be very good either!

NASCAR is irrelevant to Formula One, however Raikkonen's evenness with Massa and deficit to Alonso and Vettel suggests Raikkonen was never truly top level in Formula One (at least not beyond the McLaren).

When was an actual top level driver like Alonso ever beaten by a teammate in the way Raikkonen was? Alonso never had such a big deficit in pace to any teammate, as Raikkonen had to Alonso.

I do not think he is a bad driver, he just had 2 bad years.

Considering Daniel got every single one of his F1 GP wins in non-dominant cars, I'd suggest anyone who thinks he is has rocks in their heads.

The complaint isn't that Daniel is incapable get in and drive a car well at times, the complaint is that Ricciardo lacks engineering & technical understanding compared to the bookish sim-racing technically-minded drivers like Verstappen, Russell, Norris and Piastri.

Ricciardo called Verstappen a "nerd" for obsessing about such things, but the proof is that Norris and Piastri (almost immedately) are able to drive the McLaren as the engineers instruct them so as to maximise its strengths and minimise its weakness (and therefore literally find more grip) yet Ricciardo was not able to do so, despite repeated tuition on how to drive the McLaren correctly.

Instead Ricciardo said things like: "confused, the lap felt good, I felt like I was on the limit, I don't know why the lap time wasn't there". I.e., just driving it like a Red Bull or Renault and hoping for the best. Indeed Ricciardo was on the limit of grip, it's just that Norris literally had more grip because he was driving the car in a such a way that it produces more grip (e.g., with the right aero attitude, more braking and traction in a straight-line where the McLaren doesn't lose downforce unlike in yaw).

By contrast, within a handful of test sessions and race meetings, Piastri had an average qualifying deficit of less than a tenth to Norris. For Piastri it was almost trivial to adopt the correct driving style, something that Ricciardo was unable to do so over two whole seasons.

Piastri was also praised for excellent simulator work at Alpine, even though the Alpine had different handling characteristics than the McLaren.

Would other top level drivers like Senna or Alonso really say "Confused, I don't know why I am slow" as Ricciardo did while being 1s/lap slower than their teammate for nearly the Monaco Grand Prix weekend? It seems doubtful...

McLaren were unhappy with Ricciardo's performance and inability to drive the car as McLaren instructed time and time again to little effect. The car that recently finished P2 & P4 at Silverstone still has the same 'problems', but it shows McLaren did not need to waste time and money "fixing" that in the pursuit of adding performance (albeit low speed is still a struggle for McLaren, the opposite to their high speed -- low yaw angle? -- strengths.)

Having a driving style that suits a particular car's handling traits, can not be underestimated!

Top level drivers are usually able to adjust their driving style to suit the car's handling traits.

I'm sorry, but the cognitive dissonance here is mind-blowing, on the one hand you say "NASCAR is irrelevant to Formula One" and the next "Top level drivers are usually able to adjust their driving style to suit the car's handling traits" - pick one, you can't have both!

The fact is, Daniel was not the problem, the McLaren cars were, as proven by the one time they accidentally gave Daniel a decent car.

[AR3-GP]

You can claim that till the cows come home, doesnt make it true.

It is true though. Since when have top level drivers like Prost or Senna or pre-comeback Schumacher or Hamilton or Alonso or Verstappen struggled against their teammates because they didn't like the car characteristics?! At worst, they were only slightly behind even when they didn't like the car characteristics.

Oh, and how did Kimi Raikkonen do in his NASCAR races? He must not be very good either!

NASCAR is irrelevant to Formula One, however Raikkonen's evenness with Massa and deficit to Alonso and Vettel suggests Raikkonen was never truly top level in Formula One (at least not beyond the McLaren).

When was an actual top level driver like Alonso ever beaten by a teammate in the way Raikkonen was? Alonso never had such a big deficit in pace to any teammate, as Raikkonen had to Alonso.

Considering Daniel got every single one of his F1 GP wins in non-dominant cars, I'd suggest anyone who thinks he is has rocks in their heads.

The complaint isn't that Daniel is incapable get in and drive a car well at times, the complaint is that Ricciardo lacks engineering & technical understanding compared to the bookish sim-racing technically-minded drivers like Verstappen, Russell, Norris and Piastri.

Ricciardo called Verstappen a "nerd" for obsessing about such things, but the proof is that Norris and Piastri (almost immedately) are able to drive the McLaren as the engineers instruct them so as to maximise its strengths and minimise its weakness (and therefore literally find more grip) yet Ricciardo was not able to do so, despite repeated tuition on how to drive the McLaren correctly.

Instead Ricciardo said things like: "confused, the lap felt good, I felt like I was on the limit, I don't know why the lap time wasn't there". I.e., just driving it like a Red Bull or Renault and hoping for the best. Indeed Ricciardo was on the limit of grip, it's just that Norris literally had more grip because he was driving the car in a such a way that it produces more grip (e.g., with the right aero attitude, more braking and traction in a straight-line where the McLaren doesn't lose downforce unlike in yaw).

By contrast, within a handful of test sessions and race meetings, Piastri had an average qualifying deficit of less than a tenth to Norris. For Piastri it was almost trivial to adopt the correct driving style, something that Ricciardo was unable to do so over two whole seasons.

Piastri was also praised for excellent simulator work at Alpine, even though the Alpine had different handling characteristics than the McLaren.

Would other top level drivers like Senna or Alonso really say "Confused, I don't know why I am slow" as Ricciardo did while being 1s/lap slower than their teammate for nearly the Monaco Grand Prix weekend? It seems doubtful...

McLaren were unhappy with Ricciardo's performance and inability to drive the car as McLaren instructed time and time again to little effect. The car that recently finished P2 & P4 at Silverstone still has the same 'problems', but it shows McLaren did not need to waste time and money "fixing" that in the pursuit of adding performance (albeit low speed is still a struggle for McLaren, the opposite to their high speed -- low yaw angle? -- strengths.)

Having a driving style that suits a particular car's handling traits, can not be underestimated!

Top level drivers are usually able to adjust their driving style to suit the car's handling traits.

I'm sorry, but the cognitive dissonance here is mind-blowing, on the one hand you say "NASCAR is irrelevant to Formula One" and the next "Top level drivers are usually able to adjust their driving style to suit the car's handling traits" - pick one, you can't have both!

The fact is, Daniel was not the problem, the McLaren cars were, as proven by the one time they accidentally gave Daniel a decent car.

Sorry Djos. JordanMugen had you dead to rights. Daniel was the problem. Look at Piastri for christ sake. He was driving to a podium the other day. It's time to let the Daniel Mclaren era go. It was a failure. No car is perfect, you have to get on with it. He is the only Mclaren driver in the last decade who was completely lost. They didn't "accidentally" give him a decent car. It was the same car he had all year. It's just that Monza only had straights and braking zones which did not draw out his weaknesses in the car.

No idea what the Nascar tangent is about. Addressing it seems like a diversion from the hard facts. Daniel simply didn't adapt to the Mclaren and he remains the only driver in a very long time to fail to do so. It's water under the bridge. Hopefully he will do well at Alpha Tauri and maybe he can perform better than Perez at RB.

[djos]

Sorry Djos. JordanMugen had you dead to rights. Daniel was the problem. Look at Piastri for christ sake. He was driving to a podium the other day. It's time to let the Daniel Mclaren era go. It was a failure. No car is perfect, you have to get on with it. He is the only Mclaren driver in the last decade who was completely lost.

What do Oscar and Lando have in common? Both are young and at the beginning of their career and haven't fully developed their F1 driving style, so they have been able to adapt to the Macca's. That's all it is.

[AR3-GP]

Sorry Djos. JordanMugen had you dead to rights. Daniel was the problem. Look at Piastri for christ sake. He was driving to a podium the other day. It's time to let the Daniel Mclaren era go. It was a failure. No car is perfect, you have to get on with it. He is the only Mclaren driver in the last decade who was completely lost.

What do Oscar and Lando have in common? Both are young and at the beginning of their career and haven't fully developed their F1 driving style, so they have been able to adapt to the Macca's. That's all it is.

Oscar did thousands of kms in old Alpines. There's no such thing as "fully developing your f1 driving style". Alonso has driven all manner of car for all manner of team and been quick, including at Mclaren.

[djos]

Sorry Djos. JordanMugen had you dead to rights. Daniel was the problem. Look at Piastri for christ sake. He was driving to a podium the other day. It's time to let the Daniel Mclaren era go. It was a failure. No car is perfect, you have to get on with it. He is the only Mclaren driver in the last decade who was completely lost.

What do Oscar and Lando have in common? Both are young and at the beginning of their career and haven't fully developed their F1 driving style, so they have been able to adapt to the Macca's. That's all it is.

Oscar did thousands of kms in old Alpines. There's no such thing as "fully developing your f1 driving style". Alonso has driven all manner of car for all manner of team and been quick, including at Mclaren.

I dont accept that premise at all, Alonso drove at McLaren when the aero rules were very different!

The issue with the McLaren has been there since Lando joined (from the time Key arrived in 2018 and Lando Joined in 2019), so he's had time to mostly adapt. That said, even he struggled with last year's car:

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1027527/1 ... rs-mclaren

“I am making too many mistakes because of how I feel like I have to drive the car at the minute. I think the pace can be there. Tomorrow is a new day.”

Let's face it, the cars from James Key had major Aero stability under yaw issues, and this is why he was fired. The new Aero package from PP, that arrived recently, has brought Lando and Oscar closer together in Performance, and moved them up the grid.

[Willy]

Guys, you are wasting time arguing with someone that refuses to believe Daniel had a problem. He has anyway made this thread a "Let's make Daniel Riccardo great again" thread.

On a lighter note, i think djos is actually Daniel Riccardo himself.

[djos]

Guys, you are wasting time arguing with someone that refuses to believe Daniel had a problem. He has anyway made this thread a "Let's make Daniel Riccardo great again" thread.

On a lighter note, i think djos is actually Daniel Riccardo himself.

I never said he didnt have a problem, but some of you guy's seem to think F1 drivers should be able to magically unlearn decades of race-craft when handed a PoS and be fast in it.

Yeah I wish, I wouldn't be on these forums if I was DR, I'd be too busy driving race cars or spending time with Heidi!

[Willy]

Cool. Red Bull held talks with Charles Leclerc about his seperation from Ferrari. Probably to see if there is a possibility for an early exit?

[Willy]

Yikes! According to Joe Saward, Lando Norris is rumored to have a pre-contract with Ferrari already amid Red Bull link.

[djos]

Considering that, under James Key, McLaren ignored Lando’s repeated requests they fix the “tricky car” issues, I’m not surprised Lando’s management started looking at other teams.

No, not same crap again.

It’s not crap, Lando himself publicly stated that McLaren needed to fix the handling issues at the end of both of the last 2 seasons. It’s a matter of public record!

How about you take off the Papaya tinted glasses and try looking at the facts?

https://the-race.com/formula-1/norris-h ... y-changes/

Lando Norris says he has been pushing McLaren to adapt its philosophy of trying to build the theoretically fastest Formula 1 car it can and instead address fundamental problems that have affected multiple designs, including across different rulesets.

Norris was seventh and ‘best of the rest’ behind the drivers from Red Bull, Ferrari and Mercedes in the drivers’ championship in 2022, but he achieved that in an MCL36 with traits that both he and then team-mate Daniel Ricciardo were unhappy with.

The car lacked corner-entry stability, for example, but was still prone to suffering mid-corner understeer. Norris described the end result as being “further away from driving the car I feel like I want to drive or would suit me the most”.

He said in an exclusive interview with The Race published earlier on Monday that at its most problematic this meant having to “learn every single corner how to drive the car in a different way”, while Riccardo suggested last year that the problems he and Norris were both reporting were difficult to find solutions to.

[djos]

btw, I actually hope Lando stays at McLaren and they give him and Oscar a competitive car.

I’d love to see a 4 way battle between Max, Lando, Oscar and Charles for the title.

[SmallSoldier]

The last few pages are mostly off-topic rambles into the past & do not belong in a “Silly Season” prediction thread. Get things back to predictions rather than historical conjugations & the world will be a better place.

If you would take action that deals with the constant Spamming from the same individual on every thread… Then we probably wouldn’t be off topic… Just a thought

Really! Come on, context is everything, I merely presented the reasons Lando might want to leave for another team. Some of you just simply don't like inconvenient facts!

From the rules:

“Members continuously posting the same idea or message to prove their right across different threads will be considered spammers and will be treated as such.“

It’s been more than a year a half of the same idea or message… Repeated ad nauseum, that is spam

[hollus]

It is spam. Personal stuff following that post has been deleted, further spam will also be deleted.