2023 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 01 - 03

[DGP123]

Amazing how people forget how well Max has handled Daniel Ricciardo as a young inexperienced driver in 2016, the same Daniel who beat 4x WDC Sebastian Vettel in 2014.

It is obvious to those who want to see. I honestly don't see Verstappen being outscored by a Button caliber driver, nor watch while his teammate wins 7 races in a row with the same car.

Had Hamilton not already clinched the title, and then it was a crossover into the following season?

[Puffpirat]

Leclerc squeezed Perez more than Hamilton squeezed Piastri. Yet now everyone is trash talking lewis it’s so stupid. Tough for Piastri but a lesson learned, pick your battles. This wasn’t his anymore

[JordanMugen]

I honestly don't see Verstappen being outscored by a Button caliber driver

Wasn't Verstappen already outscored by Sainz? As was Charles Leclerc in the 2021 season? Likewise Norris also outscored by Button caliber Sainz?

Tier 1B drivers can do great things, one of them beat the tier 1 driver Leclerc in this very race after all!

Edit -- Nope I'm wrong. Verstappen outscored Sainz over both the 2015 season and the start of the 2016 season. All the more impressive that the older Tier 1B Sainz who couldn't even keep up with teenage Max with almost no car experience before F1, can still keep up with the likes of Norris and Leclerc (sometimes). Goes to show that sheer determination, like Mark "Potsie" Webber, can go far!

[Just_a_fan]

It is weird that causing a collision that obliged another driver to pit which dropped him places back is penalised completely the same way as leaving the track and gaining an advantage.

It's was pretty much a racing incident. Wasn't foolish or malicious. Remember Leclerc did this in the same corner and went unpenalized a few years ago.

Leclerc did it again today vs Perez. and it should have been penalized then, and now.


Some people say Ferrari drivers always get penalties ( ). Ferrari drivers had teflon shields today.

Ferrari, Monza, no surprise. There's precedent.

[ringo]

Perez also touch with Charles Leclerc.
He was wise enough to back out. I think this played a roled in a typical 5s penalty for Lewis.
So this adds some perspective for that chicane.

[Zynerji]

we need to see how he overcomes a strong teammate fighting for politics, fighting for WINS and Championships.

Bring in Charles.

Verstappen + Leclerc will be a cracking lineup IMO.

Charles crashes more than Maldonado..

[Silent Storm]

Amazing how people forget how well Max has handled Daniel Ricciardo as a young inexperienced driver in 2016, the same Daniel who beat 4x WDC Sebastian Vettel in 2014.

It is obvious to those who want to see. I honestly don't see Verstappen being outscored by a Button caliber driver, nor watch while his teammate wins 7 races in a row with the same car.

Hamilton fans are quick to say Max is a golden boy but they used to say this about Vettel too and guess what... RBR brought Daniel, then they said Daniel is golden boy and then Max showed up... RBR has never been shy to bring in faster drivers.

[DChemTech]

The redbull is driven well by max. But it's not accurate to say mercedes had this kins of dominance.
We have to consider the car with its regulation and reliability of fhe time.

This rb19 racing with 2 meter wide cars that are heavy... For some reason thes tanker type f1 cars are just more predictable and super reliabile. The tyres are also more stable than mercedes dominant times.

Back then Hamilton had to push against a teammate who had equal priority. And the mercedes had many weaknesses.
Mainly suspension and tyre weakness. The other weakness was its poor agility.
Then you did have the random engine issue or overheating brake etc. Etc.
Max is doing great and what's expected. But it's very wrong to say he is doing some more special than any other champion.

Even Jenson Button in the rocketshit Brawn GP car in 2009 had an enthralling battle with Barichello, who did have the edge in qualifying pace, but just lacked the strategic thinking of Jenson.

Max just needs a top driver as a teammate to race for really cement his legacy. Right now he is statistical champion like Vettel. And even Vettel had Webber to fight some times.

If the car was really as ultra-epic as you claim, we would see consistent 1-2 finishes. We don't. What we do see is a driver that has systematically and strongly outperformed his teammates over several years, and managed to extract all performance from cars weekend after weekend while others could not do so with the same car. That is an exceptional performance regardless of your stance on the person's character.

[ringo]

The redbull is driven well by max. But it's not accurate to say mercedes had this kins of dominance.
We have to consider the car with its regulation and reliability of fhe time.

This rb19 racing with 2 meter wide cars that are heavy... For some reason thes tanker type f1 cars are just more predictable and super reliabile. The tyres are also more stable than mercedes dominant times.

Back then Hamilton had to push against a teammate who had equal priority. And the mercedes had many weaknesses.
Mainly suspension and tyre weakness. The other weakness was its poor agility.
Then you did have the random engine issue or overheating brake etc. Etc.
Max is doing great and what's expected. But it's very wrong to say he is doing some more special than any other champion.

Even Jenson Button in the rocketshit Brawn GP car in 2009 had an enthralling battle with Barichello, who did have the edge in qualifying pace, but just lacked the strategic thinking of Jenson.

Max just needs a top driver as a teammate to race for really cement his legacy. Right now he is statistical champion like Vettel. And even Vettel had Webber to fight some times.

If the car was really as ultra-epic as you claim, we would see consistent 1-2 finishes. We don't. What we do see is a driver that has systematically and strongly outperformed his teammates over several years, and managed to extract all performance from cars weekend after weekend while others could not do so with the same car. That is an exceptional performance regardless of your stance on the person's character.

What were the results today?
1 and 2 right?

[dialtone]

The redbull is driven well by max. But it's not accurate to say mercedes had this kins of dominance.
We have to consider the car with its regulation and reliability of fhe time.

This rb19 racing with 2 meter wide cars that are heavy... For some reason thes tanker type f1 cars are just more predictable and super reliabile. The tyres are also more stable than mercedes dominant times.

Back then Hamilton had to push against a teammate who had equal priority. And the mercedes had many weaknesses.
Mainly suspension and tyre weakness. The other weakness was its poor agility.
Then you did have the random engine issue or overheating brake etc. Etc.
Max is doing great and what's expected. But it's very wrong to say he is doing some more special than any other champion.

Even Jenson Button in the rocketshit Brawn GP car in 2009 had an enthralling battle with Barichello, who did have the edge in qualifying pace, but just lacked the strategic thinking of Jenson.

Max just needs a top driver as a teammate to race for really cement his legacy. Right now he is statistical champion like Vettel. And even Vettel had Webber to fight some times.

If the car was really as ultra-epic as you claim, we would see consistent 1-2 finishes. We don't. What we do see is a driver that has systematically and strongly outperformed his teammates over several years, and managed to extract all performance from cars weekend after weekend while others could not do so with the same car. That is an exceptional performance regardless of your stance on the person's character.

No way man... Not even F2004 was all 1-2s. This car has won every single race, 6 1-2 finishes, 2 1-3 and a bunch of mediocrity from Perez. Only reason why not everything is a 1-2 is because Perez can't drive in quali.

[LionKing]

I honestly don't see Verstappen being outscored by a Button caliber driver

Wasn't Verstappen already outscored by Sainz?

Which year?

[ValeVida46]

If the car was really as ultra-epic as you claim, we would see consistent 1-2 finishes. We don't. What we do see is a driver that has systematically and strongly outperformed his teammates over several years, and managed to extract all performance from cars weekend after weekend while others could not do so with the same car. That is an exceptional performance regardless of your stance on the person's character.

10 wins in a row for max, 14 race wins in row this season, all races so far won by 1 team, and you are going to claim the car isn't ultra epic? Wow.

[DGP123]

If the car was really as ultra-epic as you claim, we would see consistent 1-2 finishes. We don't.

If any of the top tier drivers were there, we would be seeing those 1-2’s.

[JordanMugen]

If the car was really as ultra-epic as you claim, we would see consistent 1-2 finishes.

To be fair. Since Red Bull's preferred second driver Daniel Ricciardo left, Red Bull cycled through Gasly and Albon who turned out to be too slow, before settling on Perez who is a solid number two but not super fast himself either.

Meanwhile Ricciardo was fired from McLaren for being too slow and it remains to be seen if Ricciardo still "has it".

A shame that Red Bull did not opt for Alonso, though with Honda you can see what they might be a difficult choice. Red Bull tried to sign Norris: not interested, and Russell: who could not be released from Mercedes management contract to drive for Red Bull from 2021.

If any of the top tier drivers were there, we would be seeing those 1-2’s.

Well, unless the second driver was Hamilton. In that case both Verstappen and Hamilton would probably crash out of nearly every race, which is why that pairing would be untenable!

[Cs98]

As much as I rate him highly Oscar was foolish there with Lewis. He should have yielded! Being on the outside of turn 6 will only end in tears!

Oscar was pretty much yielding. He was braking in a straight line on the outside. Lewis was clearly going to have the corner if he just held his line, but he cut back across instead.