2023 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 01 - 03

[DChemTech]

The redbull is driven well by max. But it's not accurate to say mercedes had this kins of dominance.
We have to consider the car with its regulation and reliability of fhe time.

This rb19 racing with 2 meter wide cars that are heavy... For some reason thes tanker type f1 cars are just more predictable and super reliabile. The tyres are also more stable than mercedes dominant times.

Back then Hamilton had to push against a teammate who had equal priority. And the mercedes had many weaknesses.
Mainly suspension and tyre weakness. The other weakness was its poor agility.
Then you did have the random engine issue or overheating brake etc. Etc.
Max is doing great and what's expected. But it's very wrong to say he is doing some more special than any other champion.

Even Jenson Button in the rocketshit Brawn GP car in 2009 had an enthralling battle with Barichello, who did have the edge in qualifying pace, but just lacked the strategic thinking of Jenson.

Max just needs a top driver as a teammate to race for really cement his legacy. Right now he is statistical champion like Vettel. And even Vettel had Webber to fight some times.

If the car was really as ultra-epic as you claim, we would see consistent 1-2 finishes. We don't. What we do see is a driver that has systematically and strongly outperformed his teammates over several years, and managed to extract all performance from cars weekend after weekend while others could not do so with the same car. That is an exceptional performance regardless of your stance on the person's character.

What were the results today?
1 and 2 right?

Are you familiar with the word consistent?

[Just_a_fan]

Looking at the race, no surprise that Max won - the car is just quicker than the rest and he's driving it very well. Perez took that pace and came through to P2. Well done by him for a change. Great to see Ferrari letting their drivers race and great to see hard racing. Great drive by Albon defending for so many laps. Brain fade moments by both Mercedes drivers and both fortunate to avoid losing points because of those brain fades. Unfortunate for Piastri to lose his front wing and his points position - shame he had is own brain fade moment getting his own 5s penalty. Norris and Alonso having quiet races for them. Lawson had a good drive today. A good race for Monza.

[dialtone]

As much as I rate him highly Oscar was foolish there with Lewis. He should have yielded! Being on the outside of turn 6 will only end in tears!

Oscar was pretty much yielding. He was braking in a straight line on the outside. Lewis was clearly going to have the corner if he just held his line, but he cut back across instead.

Was starting to think everyone is blind. Thanks for saying this as well.

[JordanMugen]

As much as I rate him highly Oscar was foolish there with Lewis. He should have yielded! Being on the outside of turn 6 will only end in tears!

An absurd view on an incident that was judged as Hamilton's fault. Hamilton did not leave a car's width on the outside. 100% Hamilton's fault.

[DChemTech]

If the car was really as ultra-epic as you claim, we would see consistent 1-2 finishes. We don't. What we do see is a driver that has systematically and strongly outperformed his teammates over several years, and managed to extract all performance from cars weekend after weekend while others could not do so with the same car. That is an exceptional performance regardless of your stance on the person's character.

10 wins in a row for max, 14 race wins in row this season, all races so far won by 1 team, and you are going to claim the car isn't ultra epic? Wow.

Yes. Remove Max from the equation and the picture would have been different. Which shows it does require a top tier driver to deliver the potential, just a good car isn't enough. Not saying its a bad car, nor that it isn't the best cad, but for it to be ultra-epic, it should still consistently win in the hands of a mediocre or bad driver - and there is no evidence of that.

[ValeVida46]

If the car was really as ultra-epic as you claim, we would see consistent 1-2 finishes. We don't.

If any of the top tier drivers were there, we would be seeing those 1-2’s.

Bottas would be getting 2nd in that car very consistently.

[Cs98]

Oh and to those who keep bringing up Leclerc 2019. He got a black and white flag for said incident, showing the stewards clearly didn't think he was following the rules. But because there was no damage they didn't deem it worthy of a penalty. Hamilton's 5s was richly deserved, a slap on the wrist some might even say given it ruined Piastri's race.

[Sieper]

To me the great thing about Max is that he is never off the pace. Not even in the completely chanceless years like 2017. Every weekend he is there and gives it all. Maybe a bit too much, but that is a good thing imho, makes it exciting.

However you look at it, this is the first year Max has the outright best car and he is just winning and winning and winning. Baku was the only weekend That Perez won on merit (allthough Max got unlucky with the SC) but Jeddah he had to start from p15 due to the car crapping out during qualy. I have no doubt he would have won that one as well. It is remarkable and up there with the very best.

[Silent Storm]

Has mercedes ever mentioned why they didn't get Daniel or Max or Fernando a seat alongside Lewis? Or even get Sebastian from Ferrari?

[JordanMugen]

it should still consistently win in the hands of a mediocre or bad driver - and there is no evidence of that.

I'm not sure even the McLaren-Honda MP4/4-RA168E could win during the 1988 season with Taki Inoue as driver!

[ValeVida46]

If the car was really as ultra-epic as you claim, we would see consistent 1-2 finishes. We don't. What we do see is a driver that has systematically and strongly outperformed his teammates over several years, and managed to extract all performance from cars weekend after weekend while others could not do so with the same car. That is an exceptional performance regardless of your stance on the person's character.

10 wins in a row for max, 14 race wins in row this season, all races so far won by 1 team, and you are going to claim the car isn't ultra epic? Wow.

Yes. Remove Max from the equation and the picture would have been different. Which shows it does require a top tier driver to deliver the potential, just a good car isn't enough. Not saying its a bad car, nor that it isn't the best cad, but for it to be ultra-epic, it should still consistently win in the hands of a mediocre or bad driver - and there is no evidence of that.

I'm afraid your driver worship is beyond the pale.
This is probably the best car the sport has ever seen. To the point even a turgid Perez is 2nd in the championship by 50 points despite having a horrific season.

[Just_a_fan]

As much as I rate him highly Oscar was foolish there with Lewis. He should have yielded! Being on the outside of turn 6 will only end in tears!

An absurd view on an incident that was judged as Hamilton's fault. Hamilton did not leave a car's width on the outside. 100% Hamilton's fault.

Yes, it was a mistake by Hamilton quite simply, and a shame for Piastri to have to pit - often times that would have been a "moment" but both would carry on as happened both today and in other years.

[Silent Storm]

10 wins in a row for max, 14 race wins in row this season, all races so far won by 1 team, and you are going to claim the car isn't ultra epic? Wow.

Yes. Remove Max from the equation and the picture would have been different. Which shows it does require a top tier driver to deliver the potential, just a good car isn't enough. Not saying its a bad car, nor that it isn't the best cad, but for it to be ultra-epic, it should still consistently win in the hands of a mediocre or bad driver - and there is no evidence of that.

I'm afraid your driver worship is beyond the pale.
This is probably the best car the sport has ever seen. To the point even a turgid Perez is 2nd in the championship by 50 points despite having a horrific season.

Perez has put some midfield cars on podium in his career, 2012 comes to mind so he is no slouch on sunday.

[dialtone]

If the car was really as ultra-epic as you claim, we would see consistent 1-2 finishes. We don't. What we do see is a driver that has systematically and strongly outperformed his teammates over several years, and managed to extract all performance from cars weekend after weekend while others could not do so with the same car. That is an exceptional performance regardless of your stance on the person's character.

10 wins in a row for max, 14 race wins in row this season, all races so far won by 1 team, and you are going to claim the car isn't ultra epic? Wow.

Yes. Remove Max from the equation and the picture would have been different. Which shows it does require a top tier driver to deliver the potential, just a good car isn't enough. Not saying its a bad car, nor that it isn't the best cad, but for it to be ultra-epic, it should still consistently win in the hands of a mediocre or bad driver - and there is no evidence of that.

Never realized Decesaris won with the Mp4/4.

[JordanMugen]

This is probably the best car the sport has ever seen.

In terms of percentage that is probably untrue. Surely the wealthy Government-backed German manufacturer Grand Prix teams of the 1930's had a far greater advantage as a percentage of laptime?

[...The European Grand Prix is the same competition as the Formula One World Championship. When it has most of the same events (Italian Grand Prix, Monaco Grand Prix etc) and the same competitors (Mercedes-Benz, Scuderia Ferrari etc), considering it an unrelated competition is absurd IMO.]