2023 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, Sep 01 - 03

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it's kinda interesting, that year after year in Monza, a long first stint turns out to be the better strategy to move up in the midfield. But still, almost no one goes for it.

But of course, if everyone did, it also wouldn't work anymore

Didn't work that much for Hamilton as he was stuck in a DRS train with the slowest top speed in the field.

that's exactly why I think it worked perfectly well for him. On a normal strategy he would have got stuck as well, just without passing cars in the end.

[Just_a_fan]

If you read what I wrote rather than what you want me to have written, I said he felt he was well past and thus it was his track. He made a mistake. No one is perfect. He owned up to making a mistake. Many others never do that.

I'm confused by this post.

You are saying you think he was well past and it was his track. But Hamilton owned up to it. Do you disagree with Hamilton?

Which bit of "he made a mistake" are you struggling with? He thought something and it was wrong, ergo, he made a mistake.

[Just_a_fan]

It's a bit like steering a ship, you get direction wrong by a few degrees at the start that's going to put you well out of place down the line, which is exactly what happened here. Drivers handled it fine, but we still get nonsense apologetics and people blaming the victim of the contact. You're attempting much of the same by stating simple falsehoods like "it was his track". No, it wasn't.

If you read what I wrote rather than what you want me to have written, I said he felt he was well past and thus it was his track. He made a mistake. No one is perfect. He owned up to making a mistake. Many others never do that. He personally apologised to Oscar immediately after the race. Again, not many do that.

Agreed. But I’d rather some on here don’t try and attempt mental gymnastics and talk in word salad to even imply it was PIA at fault here. As he just wasn’t. Maybe just be the bigger person and hold your hand up (like their idol just has done!) and say it was a mistake. Would be a breathe of fresh air on this forum if they’d be as big as their star driver

And of course that applies to the fans of all drivers when they make mistakes. If everyone did it, it would be better for all.

[PlatinumZealot]

Amazing how people forget how well Max has handled Daniel Ricciardo as a young inexperienced driver in 2016, the same Daniel who beat 4x WDC Sebastian Vettel in 2014.

It is obvious to those who want to see. I honestly don't see Verstappen being outscored by a Button caliber driver, nor watch while his teammate wins 7 races in a row with the same car.

Hamilton fans are quick to say Max is a golden boy but they used to say this about Vettel too and guess what... RBR brought Daniel, then they said Daniel is golden boy and then Max showed up... RBR has never been shy to bring in faster drivers.

Why so revisionist? Daniel was never a golden boy. He was never protected or given preferential treatment against all odds. They brought in Max who was supposed to supplant Daniel in fact.

[ringo]

It's a bit like steering a ship, you get direction wrong by a few degrees at the start that's going to put you well out of place down the line, which is exactly what happened here. Drivers handled it fine, but we still get nonsense apologetics and people blaming the victim of the contact. You're attempting much of the same by stating simple falsehoods like "it was his track". No, it wasn't.

If you read what I wrote rather than what you want me to have written, I said he felt he was well past and thus it was his track. He made a mistake. No one is perfect. He owned up to making a mistake. Many others never do that. He personally apologised to Oscar immediately after the race. Again, not many do that.

Agreed. But I’d rather some on here don’t try and attempt mental gymnastics and talk in word salad to even imply it was PIA at fault here. As he just wasn’t. Maybe just be the bigger person and hold your hand up (like their idol just has done!) and say it was a mistake. Would be a breathe of fresh air on this forum if they’d be as big as their star driver

There is a difference between asking for a 10s penalty, which is inappropriate, and saying 5s is consistent. Some were asking for drive thru penalties and all kinds of nonsense.
No one here said LH was right. But it was pointed out that Piastri, for the sake of his own race could have easily backed out, because what he did by holding straight would not have put him ahead. He was basically playing chicken and lost out. Again at no point is LH being justified.

[renault rs26]

As much as I rate him highly Oscar was foolish there with Lewis. He should have yielded! Being on the outside of turn 6 will only end in tears!

Yielded what? He was alongside all the way, there was nothing to yield. Hamilton closed the door and got extremely lucky he didn't cause a monumental crash in the process. He did the same with Alonso in spa last year and he also has completely identical incident with kobayashi in spa 2011. Dude think he owns the road as soon as he's 10 cm (or behind in his case). Farcical to blame piastri for this, but expected from you.

Just like his fellow champion Max.
It's funny how depending on the driver, some penalties are too much or too little.
No penalties for this incident:
https://youtu.be/UQV-C-JDfxs?si=NT1Qy_mUHfwfNFIM
And most here agreed.

5s penalty for hamilton was correct. Piastri could have played it safe and backed out but he chose to hold his ground. And holding ground there does not help him in any situation. Unneccesary risk on his part. 5 seconds was correct.

No, most said it was for penalty and IIRC stewards said he wasn't penalized because it's their home race.

[ringo]

it's kinda interesting, that year after year in Monza, a long first stint turns out to be the better strategy to move up in the midfield. But still, almost no one goes for it.

But of course, if everyone did, it also wouldn't work anymore

Didn't work that much for Hamilton as he was stuck in a DRS train with the slowest top speed in the field.

that's exactly why I think it worked perfectly well for him. On a normal strategy he would have got stuck as well, just without passing cars in the end.

I think Albon put a cork in Hamilton's as well as the Mclaren's race.
They lost a huge amount of time behind the slower Albon.
What's not mentioned here also is how well Piastri is driving strongly against Norris.
Piastri just needs some more experience to manage his race better. I feel Norris is starting to sense that it's time to play mind games and to bully piastri into submission. The kid's got pace.

[dialtone]

If you read what I wrote rather than what you want me to have written, I said he felt he was well past and thus it was his track. He made a mistake. No one is perfect. He owned up to making a mistake. Many others never do that. He personally apologised to Oscar immediately after the race. Again, not many do that.

Agreed. But I’d rather some on here don’t try and attempt mental gymnastics and talk in word salad to even imply it was PIA at fault here. As he just wasn’t. Maybe just be the bigger person and hold your hand up (like their idol just has done!) and say it was a mistake. Would be a breathe of fresh air on this forum if they’d be as big as their star driver

There is a difference between asking for a 10s penalty, which is inappropriate, and saying 5s is consistent. Some were asking for drive thru penalties and all kinds of nonsense.
No one here said LH was right. But it was pointed out that Piastri, for the sake of his own race could have easily backed out, because what he did by holding straight would not have put him ahead. He was basically playing chicken and lost out. Again at no point is LH being justified.

He wasn’t playing chicken, he was on the side not even defending the corner, he gave up and you all are complaining he didn’t just brake much earlier…

Smh your reasoning sounds like: ‘your honor, the door was unlocked, I wouldn’t have done anything if it was locked’

[AR3-GP]

Agreed. But I’d rather some on here don’t try and attempt mental gymnastics and talk in word salad to even imply it was PIA at fault here. As he just wasn’t. Maybe just be the bigger person and hold your hand up (like their idol just has done!) and say it was a mistake. Would be a breathe of fresh air on this forum if they’d be as big as their star driver

There is a difference between asking for a 10s penalty, which is inappropriate, and saying 5s is consistent. Some were asking for drive thru penalties and all kinds of nonsense.
No one here said LH was right. But it was pointed out that Piastri, for the sake of his own race could have easily backed out, because what he did by holding straight would not have put him ahead. He was basically playing chicken and lost out. Again at no point is LH being justified.

He wasn’t playing chicken, he was on the side not even defending the corner, he gave up and you all are complaining he didn’t just brake much earlier…

Smh your reasoning sounds like: ‘your honor, the door was unlocked, I wouldn’t have done anything if it was locked’

+1

Some say the racing is boring, but if Piastri were to just exist in space, he's wrong. He needed to feed Hamilton grapes with the overtake

[PlatinumZealot]

Piastri is quite good. He's my driver of the race but for his mistake not to backnout beside Lewis. He's doing in his rookie year what Daniel Ricciardo failed to do as a seasoned driver. Keep pace with Lando not just in qualifying but he's rate there in late race stints. It's impressive he's doing this so quickly. Lando is even aware of it.. Look at that agressive move into turn on on Oscar, cracking under the pressure Lando? He got a free undercut from his team to get past Piastri too! I'm starting to suspect McLaren is "quelling the flames" and trying to keep Lando happy lol. Next season Piastri will be straight fire and Macca wont hold him back. Gonna be fun.

[AR3-GP]

Piastri is quite good. He's my driver of the race but for his mistake not to backnout beside Lewis. He's doing in his rookie year what Daniel Ricciardo failed to do as a seasoned driver. Keep pace with Lando not just in qualifying but he's rate there in late race stints. It's impressive he's doing this so quickly. Lando is even aware of it.. Look at that agressive move into turn on on Oscar, cracking under the pressure Lando? He got a free undercut from his team to get past Piastri too! I'm starting to suspect McLaren is "quelling the flames" and trying to keep Lando happy lol. Next season Piastri will be straight fire and Macca wont hold him back. Gonna be fun.

Lando's move wasn't aggressive in T1. Piastri drove into the side of him...Did you get the cars mixed up? Lando was clear on the outside and made it to the inside of the 2nd apex. Piastri just drilled him in a bit of desperation on cold tires fresh out of the pits.

[renault rs26]

Drive through pens are a thing of the past. It’s essentially the death penalty for a driver, and kills his race, and ruins the show. You want drivers attacking each other, not living in fear of hitting someone and basically destroying your whole race with a drive through. 5s was correct.

I disagree, maybe you're mistaking it with stop-go penalty?
Drive-through would be like 15-20s penalty plus you have to give track position immediately and sort positions during race not after.
Also disagree that drivers shouldn't care if they take out competition for sake of show.

[ringo]

Has mercedes ever mentioned why they didn't get Daniel or Max or Fernando a seat alongside Lewis? Or even get Sebastian from Ferrari?

Bottas was a prodigy. Just look on his stats pre mercedes. He basically destroyed massa in the williams. Massa is a fast qualifier and of course a quality driver. Bottas was considered someone who could challenge Hamilton.
Nico was rated highly enough, better than Vettel.
Redbull would not release Riciardo.
Vettel he had the redbull culture of cherry picking teammates and would not teammup with hamilton.
Hamuilton beat Alonso. Alonso ran away from the challenge. Why would lewis want to face alonso again? Also Alonso has many times said no to being hamilton's partner.
Max could have came to mercedes, but would have been destroyed at that early stage. And this is not my opinion. I think his team have said this. Horner i think.
But hamilton has always wanted to have the fastest driver in the next seat and wanted the challenge. That's no secret if you have been watching f1 long enough.

Alonso - 2 x reigning champion. Faced lewis in his prime.
Button - 1x reiging champion. Faced lewis in his prime.
Nico - MS slayer, and champion material. Faced lewis in his prime in nico's team.

Bottas - prodigy, managed by Totto.
Heiki - prodigy and super fast qualifier.

There was no one else for Hamilton to face that was not beaten by these guys at the time. Kimi, Vettel, who else was there worthy?

Ringo, I sincerely hope you're getting paid or are part of Hamilton's PR team otherwise it's just sad to pull such mental gymnastics at your age for a person who doesn't know you exist.

Where is the lie?
Max - unproven rookie, wet behind the ears teammates, or 2nd tier pretenders.
Truth?
Hamilton - two champions in their prime, with the wdc trophy in their living rooms.

Huge difference and explains why those years gone were exciting. I am not discrediting Max. Just saying 2022 and 2023 cannot compare to 2007, 2008, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021 in terms of a clash of titans.
The teammates and the cars just aren't there to create a challenge for an epic season.

We are still enjoying the midfeild scraps. But nothing at the front to write home about.

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Would be interesting to know if McLaren had swapped positions again in the end again without the crash, but probably not? It was at least the 2nd time this year that they pitted Norris a lap earlier to get him past his team mate.

[Sieper]

Just enjoy history bring written. You can really see Max also enjoying it, that is the best you can do. Congrats all for witnessing it.