2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Xyz22]

Don't overlook that the McL had the same pace as Ferrari today despite no high speed corners. I feel a lot of people are not paying attention to that.

[Space-heat]

Nah… the 5s gap they asked was for the double stack not sacrifice. LEC was meant to hold position as they were freezing the race like in 2019. Plus he got great tire management that way, his tires were going to last a lifetime, enough to just make the pass on start, plus he probably OKed the soft start.

This was an unlucky race for him and Ferrari despite the win. Both incidents resulted in loss of strategic advantage.

Great drive from both drivers.

EDIT: merc was in front already, had he pitted in vsc he was joining back behind and definitely not passing.

Merc would have had to double stack under VSC, no?

[dialtone]

Don't overlook that the McL had the same pace as Ferrari today despite no high speed corners. I feel a lot of people are not paying attention to that.

No they didn't. Sai could gap him at will at the end. This race can't be analysed because nobody was pushing except the Mercs at the end.

Japan will be bad, but I got my win.

[Xyz22]

Don't overlook that the McL had the same pace as Ferrari today despite no high speed corners. I feel a lot of people are not paying attention to that.

No they didn't. Sai could gap him at will at the end. This race can't be analysed because nobody was pushing except the Mercs at the end.

Japan will be bad, but I got my win.

Sainz in the last stint before the Merc arrived pushed a lot, as his engineer told him (right now we need to give everything you've got). Norris was matching his lap times. I think McL has made another important step.

[dialtone]

Don't overlook that the McL had the same pace as Ferrari today despite no high speed corners. I feel a lot of people are not paying attention to that.

No they didn't. Sai could gap him at will at the end. This race can't be analysed because nobody was pushing except the Mercs at the end.

Japan will be bad, but I got my win.

Sainz in the last stint before the Merc arrived pushed a lot, as his engineer told him (right now you need to give everything you've got). Norris was matching his lap times. I think McL has made another important step.

And Sainz was already thinking about his strategy at the end which he couldn't execute had he been too far ahead.

Edit: But certainly McL is closer now. I agree.

[Spoutnik]

I never stop believing in Carlos, I'm so happy for him.
Like one of the McLaren engineer said it's like racing with an extra engineer in the team.

In front of my TV I thought "Sainz should give DRS to Norris to create a DRS train" and he did it brillantly, it was reminiscent of Hamilton parking the bus at Abu Dhabi 2016 to save his WDC.
Really mature drive !

Regarding Charles, I think it was not his weekend ofc (luck in the pit, teamplay, 0.140 in qualy). I think Ferrari could've tried the Merc strategy (with scrubbed soft in that case) because they had nothing to lose and Perez had create such a gap against the rest of the field that it was a free stop for him like for the Merc.

I just hope the team can find the most neutral car philosophy for both driver. Sainz likes a lazy front-end, Leclerc is said to "don't have any driving style" but in reality he's close to Verstappen in terms of preference. I think the SF-21 was the sweetspot. Carlos described it in "Beyond the grid" saying this car was very neutral (while the McLaren in which he excelled had a very understeery nature, and the Renault on the opposite was very oversteeery/strong front end).

[Spoutnik]

I go back to something I said yesterday in this thread.

The chronic understeer is costing us more than it has proven beneficial.

Dialling back oversteer is easier than dialling in oversteer. ARB settings, Brake Bias settings and backing off FW angles can dial out oversteer without making big compromises to the overall performance. Trying to improve mid corner rotation usally requires higher rake angles, which costs floor performance, increase in flap angles, which slightly increase drag and extremely limited in how much they can do here. Understeer tends to be less kind on the front tyres aswell

Sainz comlaining about the front tyres being gone at a rear limited circuit tells you what you need to know.

Tells you he was going slow AF.

Ferrari was pretty good this race overall as a car, they had better pace than everyone else in 1st stint. Could it have been better? Yeah but let's be realistic.

Folks just to set things clear: race sims were in 1:38s, race was half at 1:40s. And other half at 1:39s till VSC that spiced things up. A typical 2 stopper turned into a 1 stopper Soft-Hard. It was slow, so slow the soft on LEC, which had 2 more laps than the mediums, was going to go past 25 laps without SC, almost half distance while gapping Russell.

Don't evaluate this race like the others, this is more like Monaco with slightly better passing chances.

Yes in a way it's like Ocon fugazi podium in Monaco let's say

[Xyz22]

I never stop believing in Carlos, I'm so happy for him.
Like one of the McLaren engineer said it's like racing with an extra engineer in the team.

In front of my TV I thought "Sainz should give DRS to Norris to create a DRS train" and he did it brillantly, it was reminiscent of Hamilton parking the bus at Abu Dhabi 2016 to save his WDC.
Really mature drive !

Regarding Charles, I think it was not his weekend ofc (luck in the pit, teamplay, 0.140 in qualy). I think Ferrari could've tried the Merc strategy (with scrubbed soft in that case) because they had nothing to lose and Perez had create such a gap against the rest of the field that it was a free stop for him like for the Merc.

I just hope the team can find the most neutral car philosophy for both driver. Sainz likes a lazy front-end, Leclerc is said to "don't have any driving style" but in reality he's close to Verstappen in terms of preference. I think the SF-21 was the sweetspot. Carlos described it in "Beyond the grid" saying this car was very neutral (while the McLaren in which he excelled had a very understeery nature, and the Renault on the opposite was very oversteeery/strong front end).

The SF 21 was still extremely limited front end wise (and of course was a midfield car). Check Paul Ricard and Qatar results in 2021, two of the most critical tracks for front tyres. Spoiler: it was a disaster

[Spoutnik]

I never stop believing in Carlos, I'm so happy for him.
Like one of the McLaren engineer said it's like racing with an extra engineer in the team.

In front of my TV I thought "Sainz should give DRS to Norris to create a DRS train" and he did it brillantly, it was reminiscent of Hamilton parking the bus at Abu Dhabi 2016 to save his WDC.
Really mature drive !

Regarding Charles, I think it was not his weekend ofc (luck in the pit, teamplay, 0.140 in qualy). I think Ferrari could've tried the Merc strategy (with scrubbed soft in that case) because they had nothing to lose and Perez had create such a gap against the rest of the field that it was a free stop for him like for the Merc.

I just hope the team can find the most neutral car philosophy for both driver. Sainz likes a lazy front-end, Leclerc is said to "don't have any driving style" but in reality he's close to Verstappen in terms of preference. I think the SF-21 was the sweetspot. Carlos described it in "Beyond the grid" saying this car was very neutral (while the McLaren in which he excelled had a very understeery nature, and the Renault on the opposite was very oversteeery/strong front end).

The SF 21 was still extremely limited front end wise (and of course was a midfield car). Check Paul Ricard and Qatar results in 2021, two of the most critical tracks for front tyres. Spoiler: it was a disaster

Yes, that was also my thought but I'm just relaying what Sainz said

[AR3-GP]

Don't overlook that the McL had the same pace as Ferrari today despite no high speed corners. I feel a lot of people are not paying attention to that.

No they didn't. Sai could gap him at will at the end. This race can't be analysed because nobody was pushing except the Mercs at the end.

Japan will be bad, but I got my win.

Sainz in the last stint before the Merc arrived pushed a lot, as his engineer told him (right now we need to give everything you've got). Norris was matching his lap times. I think McL has made another important step.

Mclaren claims it was a 4 tenths update. They will be frightening in Japan.

I still think Sainz had him covered though. Norris just used a bit more tire to "catch up" and then was worse at the very end to the point Sainz was having to slow down.

[Vanja #66]

Still he wasn't competitive this weekend, having to compensate by punishing the rears to achieve good lap times. In fact in the last 7 laps they were completely done.

When you have to race Red Bulls, lock up to avoid Norris after his attempt to pass Perez and drive for 20+ laps behind 4 cars after the team lets you wait in the pit you tend to shoot the tyres. Opposite is being in front, slowing down the pace and having your team mate keep everyone else 5s behind you, you tend to extend the tyre life.

Carlos will finish ahead easily. Leclerc didn't maximize his results (Bahrein, Saudi, Monza, Zandvoort) when he had the pace. Mix of bad luck and mistakes.

What were the mistakes in those races?

Nah. This was same as 2019. Pace differences were irrelevant, all going 1s+ slower than best pace to make the first stint go.

Ferrari didn’t swap because it was never in the plan, the soft was just for the start then LEC was meant to slow everyone down since he needed his tire to last anyway.

I understand what their plan was with Leclerc and sacrificing a 1-2. It almost backfired spectacularly.

[scuderiabrandon]

I never stop believing in Carlos, I'm so happy for him.
Like one of the McLaren engineer said it's like racing with an extra engineer in the team.

In front of my TV I thought "Sainz should give DRS to Norris to create a DRS train" and he did it brillantly, it was reminiscent of Hamilton parking the bus at Abu Dhabi 2016 to save his WDC.
Really mature drive !

Regarding Charles, I think it was not his weekend ofc (luck in the pit, teamplay, 0.140 in qualy). I think Ferrari could've tried the Merc strategy (with scrubbed soft in that case) because they had nothing to lose and Perez had create such a gap against the rest of the field that it was a free stop for him like for the Merc.

I just hope the team can find the most neutral car philosophy for both driver. Sainz likes a lazy front-end, Leclerc is said to "don't have any driving style" but in reality he's close to Verstappen in terms of preference. I think the SF-21 was the sweetspot. Carlos described it in "Beyond the grid" saying this car was very neutral (while the McLaren in which he excelled had a very understeery nature, and the Renault on the opposite was very oversteeery/strong front end).

It was 0.079 in qualy.

A neutral balance won't cut it. You can't biuld car to exploit the best from your driver by trying to cater for both. Tyres in the current generation just don't allow understeer to be fast consistently on various track layouts. As I also mentioned, tuning out oversteer is easier than trying to add it.

There is reason for big pace deltas when the car suit the driver with the oversteer preference. It is not just true for Ferrari but for all the teams across the grid.

Verstappen smashes Perez
Leclerc smashes Sainz with the car to his liking.
Russell who is used to a weaker rear end from driving a Williams, smashed Hamilton last year.

F1-75 up until TD039 had a strong front end and competitive tyre wear. Once we got punished, the pace went away, the tyres went away and the gap between LEC and SAI came down ever so slightly. Do I need to go on. These aren't just coincidental.

The floors on these cars play a massive role in tuning the balance of these cars. The flexi planks could've likely moved the Cpt forward which is why the F1-75 had such a good fornt end until it got banned.


The prove is in the pudding. These Pirellis don't like scrubbing and sliding.

[Xyz22]

No they didn't. Sai could gap him at will at the end. This race can't be analysed because nobody was pushing except the Mercs at the end.

Japan will be bad, but I got my win.

Sainz in the last stint before the Merc arrived pushed a lot, as his engineer told him (right now we need to give everything you've got). Norris was matching his lap times. I think McL has made another important step.

Mclaren claims it was a 4 tenths update. They will be frightening in Japan.

I still think Sainz had him covered though. Norris just used a bit more tire to "catch up" and then was worse at the very end to the point Sainz was having to slow down.

I didn't say McL was faster. I said Norris was being able to match Carlos lap times despite him pushing a lot (maybe not 100% but almost). This was a surprise for me considering the track layout. When you look where McL was even in Austria in 90-degree corners, and you compare it to what they did today, the jump in performance is massive.

Still he wasn't competitive this weekend, having to compensate by punishing the rears to achieve good lap times. In fact in the last 7 laps they were completely done.

When you have to race Red Bulls, lock up to avoid Norris after his attempt to pass Perez and drive for 20+ laps behind 4 cars after the team lets you wait in the pit you tend to shoot the tyres. Opposite is being in front, slowing down the pace and having your team mate keep everyone else 5s behind you, you tend to extend the tyre life.

Carlos will finish ahead easily. Leclerc didn't maximize his results (Bahrein, Saudi, Monza, Zandvoort) when he had the pace. Mix of bad luck and mistakes.

What were the mistakes in those races?

Nah. This was same as 2019. Pace differences were irrelevant, all going 1s+ slower than best pace to make the first stint go.

Ferrari didn’t swap because it was never in the plan, the soft was just for the start then LEC was meant to slow everyone down since he needed his tire to last anyway.

I understand what their plan was with Leclerc and sacrificing a 1-2. It almost backfired spectacularly.

For sure Charles lost a bit of tyre life because he had to push after the pit stop. No doubt about that. Still, as he said himself, in order to achieve good lap times he had to compensate by pushing the rear tyres a lot.

In Zandvoort he made a mistake in quali and a racing incident with Piastri which compromised his race (bad luck in this case but still), and in Monza he actually overtook Sainz, but locked up a bit and lost the position in the following corner. Was just a bit too clumsy. It doesn't surprise me, considering how much Leclerc hates this car. He is always on the limit.

[dialtone]

Sainz in the last stint before the Merc arrived pushed a lot, as his engineer told him (right now we need to give everything you've got). Norris was matching his lap times. I think McL has made another important step.

Mclaren claims it was a 4 tenths update. They will be frightening in Japan.

I still think Sainz had him covered though. Norris just used a bit more tire to "catch up" and then was worse at the very end to the point Sainz was having to slow down.

I didn't say McL was faster. I said Norris was being able to match Carlos lap times despite him pushing a lot (maybe not 100% but almost). This was a surprise for me considering the track layout. When you look where McL was even in Austria in 90-degree corners, and you compare it to what they did today, the jump in performance is massive.

McL is going to be up there from now on, I agree. Great turn around from Stella.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Spoutnik]

I never stop believing in Carlos, I'm so happy for him.
Like one of the McLaren engineer said it's like racing with an extra engineer in the team.

In front of my TV I thought "Sainz should give DRS to Norris to create a DRS train" and he did it brillantly, it was reminiscent of Hamilton parking the bus at Abu Dhabi 2016 to save his WDC.
Really mature drive !

Regarding Charles, I think it was not his weekend ofc (luck in the pit, teamplay, 0.140 in qualy). I think Ferrari could've tried the Merc strategy (with scrubbed soft in that case) because they had nothing to lose and Perez had create such a gap against the rest of the field that it was a free stop for him like for the Merc.

I just hope the team can find the most neutral car philosophy for both driver. Sainz likes a lazy front-end, Leclerc is said to "don't have any driving style" but in reality he's close to Verstappen in terms of preference. I think the SF-21 was the sweetspot. Carlos described it in "Beyond the grid" saying this car was very neutral (while the McLaren in which he excelled had a very understeery nature, and the Renault on the opposite was very oversteeery/strong front end).

It was 0.079 in qualy.

A neutral balance won't cut it. You can't biuld car to exploit the best from your driver by trying to cater for both. Tyres in the current generation just don't allow understeer to be fast consistently on various track layouts. As I also mentioned, tuning out oversteer is easier than trying to add it.

There is reason for big pace deltas when the car suit the driver with the oversteer preference. It is not just true for Ferrari but for all the teams across the grid.

Verstappen smashes Perez
Leclerc smashes Sainz with the car to his liking.
Russell who is used to a weaker rear end from driving a Williams, smashed Hamilton last year.

F1-75 up until TD039 had a strong front end and competitive tyre wear. Once we got punished, the pace went away, the tyres went away and the gap between LEC and SAI came down ever so slightly. Do I need to go on. These aren't just coincidental.

The floors on these cars play a massive role in tuning the balance of these cars. The flexi planks could've likely moved the Cpt forward which is why the F1-75 had such a good fornt end until it got banned.


The prove is in the pudding. These Pirellis don't like scrubbing and sliding.

No it was 0.140 I belive because Russell himself was 0.70 from the pole (0.70 + 0.70 = 0.140)

I understand your analysis but I believe Hamilton example is wrong, and some drivers like Hamilton and Alonso aren't oversteery/particularly strong front end oriented but are the fastest amongst their pairs.
So I just think you are right (you cannot be fast without taking risks, that why full understeer only works in endurance racing or for midfield cars) but a more neutral car or lets say not on "100% sensitivity" (to quote Albon), might be a good way.