2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[DChemTech]

Perez is probably button level when everything is going well, except Button could drive in the rain, Perez cannot.

Nah, Perez isn't on Button's level. If you'd put Perez in the BGP 001 he'd have come second to Rubens.

Did everyone forget that Perez is quite a competent driver that showed good things in both a Sauber and over several years of Force India? He is not as bad as everyone suddenly seems to think.
Just doesn't seem as capable at driving a car that's designed for Max' driving style. Which isn't a shame - the same applied to Albon and Gasly, who are both showing competence in other cars.

[AR3-GP]

Perez was teammates with Button in his rookie season at Mclaren. The qualifying head to head was matched. It took years for Button develop into his prime.

[chrisc90]

Haven't listened to it, but might be of interest to some.

Podcast with Adrian.

Little overview.
04:16 – What motivates Adrian?
09:54 – Influence of Adrian’s father
20:19 – Understanding 'ground effect'
26:13 – How does Adrian design F1 cars?
30:59 – Why the 2023 Red Bull is so good
44:03 – Adrian’s World Champions
56:51 – Approaches from Ferrari
01:02:01 – Retirement plans?

[Just_a_fan]

Perez was teammates with Button in his rookie season at Mclaren. The qualifying head to head was matched. It took years for Button develop into his prime.

Perez's rookie year was with Sauber where he was beaten by Kobayashi. His second year, also in Sauber, he beat Kobayashi and actually had some good results - a couple of 2nds and a 3rd. He moved to McLaren for his third season (and his only season with the team) and was beaten by Button (no disgrace there) and, if I remember correctly, he had a few run-ins with Button on track. We'll see that happen over his career with other team mates.

Perez is a journeyman. I don't understand why so many RB fans are trying to "big him up". There's no need. No one is casting shade on Max here. Max is up there with the best. HIs team mate, however, absolutely isn't.

[Sieper]

I think the problem for us is the upselling of Bottas. And more or less the downselling of every teammate that Max had. A certain driver also hinted that we should look at it that way. Most of them collapsed when competing with Max, some spectacularly, but they are also all still in F1 and doing good.

So I think we want to offer some perspective.

Everyone knows Perez is, as you say, a journeyman but he is certainly not much worse than f.e, a Bottas and Max is totally crushing him.

It is also hard as Max wants, nay, needs to win all the time. He is always on it. Will never let you save face. And perhaps especially so if you think you are better than you actually are, but I don’t really think Max needs that kind of motivation. He is already hungry like you almost can’t believe.

[Sofa King]

The Newey design philosophy is to get the car to work across the broadest possible envelope. Merc could learn from that, but I’m sure it’s much easier said than done

Haven't listened to it, but might be of interest to some.

Podcast with Adrian.

Little overview.
04:16 – What motivates Adrian?
09:54 – Influence of Adrian’s father
20:19 – Understanding 'ground effect'
26:13 – How does Adrian design F1 cars?
30:59 – Why the 2023 Red Bull is so good
44:03 – Adrian’s World Champions
56:51 – Approaches from Ferrari
01:02:01 – Retirement plans?

[Just_a_fan]

I think the problem for us is the upselling of Bottas. And more or less the downselling of every teammate that Max had. A certain driver also hinted that we should look at it that way. Most of them collapsed when competing with Max, some spectacularly, but they are also all still in F1 and doing good.

So I think we want to offer some perspective.

Everyone knows Perez is, as you say, a journeyman but he is certainly not much worse than f.e, a Bottas and Max is totally crushing him.

It is also hard as Max wants, nay, needs to win all the time. He is always on it. Will never let you save face. And perhaps especially so if you think you are better than you actually are, but I don’t really think Max needs that kind of motivation. He is already hungry like you almost can’t believe.

Why do you feel the need to talk down Bottas other than to cast shade on Lewis? I'm not discussing Perez to talk-down Max. I, for one, have stated on several posts today that Max is up there with the greats. Whether Perez is good or not doesn't change that. I think Max would have had to work harder with a better team mate, but I think he'd still be where he is at the top of the table (a WDC in the other car would have made for a more interesting set of races at the front, for sure, and maybe a different set of results but we'll never know so it's a moot point).

Perez has wasted his opportunity in what is one of the best cars in F1 history. Does anyone disagree with that? Perez should have been taking seconds galore or at the least podiums galore this year but he hasn't.

Bottas wasn't a title winner. Was never going to be. But he was consistently a better points and podium finisher in a good car than Perez is.
2017, 18, and 2019, Bottas had one finish outside of the points (other than DNFs). 37 podium finishes.
2021, 22, 2023 Perez has had 6 finishes outside of the points (other than DNFs) and we haven't finished the season yet. 24 podium finishes (6 races to go so he can get 30 if he does really well).

And why focus on Bottas? What about Rosberg? Also "upsold"? But that risks derailing to a driver ying-yang that isn't relevant to the RBR team (a discussion about Perez is relevant).

As I said, this isn't about casting Max as being oversold. It's about Perez and his wasting of the best opportunity of his career.

[Just_a_fan]

The Newey design philosophy is to get the car to work across the broadest possible envelope. Merc could learn from that, but I’m sure it’s much easier said than done

Merc did do that with cars in the previous rules set. So it's not that they need to learn it. They just need to figure out how to apply it to the current rules set.

The RB19 is a car that works well across the majority of tracks but which also requires a certain skill set to maximise its potential - much like Newey's blown diffuser designs, interestingly. Mercedes have generally required a less particular preference from the driver - a more "open" design.

[taperoo2k]

I think the problem for us is the upselling of Bottas. And more or less the downselling of every teammate that Max had. A certain driver also hinted that we should look at it that way. Most of them collapsed when competing with Max, some spectacularly, but they are also all still in F1 and doing good.

You've either got what it takes to compete with Max or you realise your role is as a number 2 to bring in the points and to win when Max is not able to.

So I think we want to offer some perspective.

Everyone knows Perez is, as you say, a journeyman but he is certainly not much worse than f.e, a Bottas and Max is totally crushing him.

Perez is a stop gap measure for Red Bull, given they chewed through a lot of drivers over the past decade.
My gut feeling is that Daniel will get the second seat at Red Bull in 2025 (assuming he performs at AT), maybe he'll get it in 2024 if Perez continues to be terrible with Red Bull facing stiffer competition from say McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes.

It is also hard as Max wants, nay, needs to win all the time. He is always on it. Will never let you save face. And perhaps especially so if you think you are better than you actually are, but I don’t really think Max needs that kind of motivation. He is already hungry like you almost can’t believe.

You can say the same things about Lewis and Alonso. Max doesn't need to be hyped up.

[taperoo2k]

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...

…

Perez was pretty much destroyed by Max in Monaco. Perez lacks the speed that Max, Lewis and Alonso are able to extract from a car aka they can take it closer to the edge.

I’ve said it before but it does bear repeating…
On an average day, the greats are still good whereas the good are merely average.
Not only are they “able to extract from a car aka they can take it closer to the edge”, but they can perform at that level consistently.
What you are seeing is the difference between the top performing 0.1% & those that are at 99.5%. Even an average/poor F1 driver is at approximately 99%.
It works exactly the same with teams and cars. When the stars are aligned…

Consistency will always be one of the keys to winning in F1. At the moment everything is aligned for Max and Red Bull to dominate. You can't fault Perez for having the ambition to beat Max. But I think his moment has likely sailed off into the sunset.

[Sofa King]

Another gem from the Newey podcast is reconfirming just how difficult it is to be the second driver on a team with a prodigy, referencing Gasly and Albon with Max, but carefully avoiding any mention of Perez. Similarly, putting an Alonso or Hamilton next to Max won’t solve the issue as we have seen with Prost and Senna. That should be a warning sign to Norris and exactly why I think Danny is the best fit to eventually replace Perez. He has the right combination of maturity, talent and a global brand to live as second driver to Max, which is a very rare combination on the grid.

...


Perez was pretty much destroyed by Max in Monaco. Perez lacks the speed that Max, Lewis and Alonso are able to extract from a car aka they can take it closer to the edge.

I’ve said it before but it does bear repeating…
On an average day, the greats are still good whereas the good are merely average.
Not only are they “able to extract from a car aka they can take it closer to the edge”, but they can perform at that level consistently.
What you are seeing is the difference between the top performing 0.1% & those that are at 99.5%. Even an average/poor F1 driver is at approximately 99%.
It works exactly the same with teams and cars. When the stars are aligned…

Consistency will always be one of the keys to winning in F1. At the moment everything is aligned for Max and Red Bull to dominate. You can't fault Perez for having the ambition to beat Max. But I think his moment has likely sailed off into the sunset.

[AR3-GP]

Imo, Daniel is not mentally strong enough to be teammates with Max. This is how he ended up with 2 torrid seasons are Mclaren in the first place. He cannot deal with another driver being younger and better than him.

[djos]

Imo, Daniel is not mentally strong enough to be teammates with Max. This is how he ended up with 2 torrid seasons are Mclaren in the first place. He cannot deal with another driver being younger and better than him.

Daniel couldn’t trust The McLaren cars with their weak front end and inconsistent handling traits, end of story.

McLaren themselves said Daniel was a joy to work with and it was clear he and Lando worked well together.

Frankly, I think most ppl were impressed with how he handled a bad situation with grace and dignity.

[AR3-GP]

Imo, Daniel is not mentally strong enough to be teammates with Max. This is how he ended up with 2 torrid seasons are Mclaren in the first place. He cannot deal with another driver being younger and better than him.

Daniel couldn’t trust The McLaren cars with their weak front end and inconsistent handling traits, end of story.

McLaren themselves said Daniel was a joy to work with and it was clear he and Lando worked well together.

Frankly, I think most ppl were impressed with how he handled a bad situation with grace and dignity.

Daniel being a pleasant person to work with has nothing to do with my point. He's a nice guy. The issue is not his relationship with the teams. The issue is one that he creates for himself. He is either beating his teammate and in a very good state of mind, or losing and spiraling into depression. That's just how he is.

[djos]

Imo, Daniel is not mentally strong enough to be teammates with Max. This is how he ended up with 2 torrid seasons are Mclaren in the first place. He cannot deal with another driver being younger and better than him.

Daniel couldn’t trust The McLaren cars with their weak front end and inconsistent handling traits, end of story.

McLaren themselves said Daniel was a joy to work with and it was clear he and Lando worked well together.

Frankly, I think most ppl were impressed with how he handled a bad situation with grace and dignity.

Daniel being a pleasant person to work with has nothing to do with my point. He's a nice guy. The issue is not his relationship with the teams. The issue is one that he creates for himself. He is either beating his teammate and in a very good state of mind, or losing and spiraling into depression. That's just how he is.

He couldn’t get to grips with the car - like most top drivers, if he can’t trust it, he can’t get the most out of it.

It speaks volumes to how bad the McLaren was when Lando says "at its most problematic this meant having to “learn every single corner how to drive the car in a different way”.