Cockpit Safety

[kilcoo316]

In my opinion, you do not want anything above the driver's head*.


*if you do, a full hoop structure will be required, one which is tolerant of impacts from front, side and rear. For a composite structure, this is not easy due to the isotropic nature of the loadings.


A version of the old McLaren windscreen on steroids is a more practical option... however I am still of the opinion that the risk** associated with the problem is so low that pursuing a solution is nearly a waste of time.




**understand the actual meaning of risk before ranting back at this.

[axle]

however I am still of the opinion that the risk** associated with the problem is so low that pursuing a solution is nearly a waste of time.

**understand the actual meaning of risk before ranting back at this.

I do, and agree...the potential for a re-occurance is low.

[ISLAMATRON]

In my opinion, you do not want anything above the driver's head*.


*if you do, a full hoop structure will be required, one which is tolerant of impacts from front, side and rear. For a composite structure, this is not easy due to the isotropic nature of the loadings.

The roll hoops now have to pass FIA standards, and is considered one of the strongest parts of the safety cell.

[machin]

Even more reason why my concept for a futuristic F1 car posted afew weeks back would be a good idea.....

See here.... viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7023

and for those who missed it:-



Nothing wrong with a bit of self-promotion!!!!

[ISLAMATRON]

was hoping you'd repost that... love it, except for hat shark fin

needs bigger wings for more advertising but leave em single plane.

[axle]

Even more reason why my concept for a futuristic F1 car posted afew weeks back would be a good idea.....

See here.... viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7023

and for those who missed it:-



Nothing wrong with a bit of self-promotion!!!!

Can't wait to see someone burn to death inside it, by being trapped upside down or due to a faulty/damaged release system

But in all seriousness, humans NEED risk, take it away and people will get bored.

[WhiteBlue]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85617?

Double wheel tethers are decided for 2011. Good move after a wheel almost hitting Glock on Sunday.

[Giando]

As an italian Ferrari supporter, what i really do not like about the SF70H is the roll-hoop area, from a safety point of view.

Maranello's designers have choosen after years of 'closed structures' to follow the path introduced by RedBull and other teams in 2009, with the front roll hoop somehow separated and visible from the outside...

It certainly passes the crash tests but to my eyes it seems so thin and fragile...

Also, the headrest is sooo low behind the helmet, and so the 'line' of the chassis connected to it, so there's space under the snorkel/air intake for blunt objects to go through there... also from behind.



Funnily enough, RedBull abandoned this roll-hoop concept right this year with the new RB13.

On a side note, after what happened to poor Jules Bianchi, I would have liked the teams to work together on a bigger and safer structure in that part of the car, not that crappy Halo thing that doesn't block objects flying towards the helmet and makes harder for the driver to leave the car when upside-down. Instead, side head protections structures are every year more and more invisible, while they should have gone for a mandatory 1996-F310-like solution, imho.

May I ask your opinion think on this?

[mattia.bobbo]

oh, Jules Bianchi again, no please.. He died due to the extreme acceleration his body could not withstand. No halo or roll hoop could have saved him.

to your eyes seem fragile, but if it passes crash test, it's not fragile and in the correct place. Which object can pass through the roll hoop and the head rest? it's very hard foreseeing an object coming from that side..

[Giando]

oh, Jules Bianchi again, no please.. He died due to the extreme acceleration his body could not withstand. No halo or roll hoop could have saved him.

to your eyes seem fragile, but if it passes crash test, it's not fragile and in the correct place. Which object can pass through the roll hoop and the head rest? it's very hard foreseeing an object coming from that side..

Hi, i think you didn't read properly my - supposedly kind, btw - post.

The Jules Bianchi part was a side note, as clearly written.

As for the core point: i think that a suspension arm could easily go through the space below the air intake.
Competition cars accidents dynamics could be very surprising and unpredictable, and sadly we have had proof of this many times.

So i think the point I made out about the SF70H is still valid. Glad they had gone for a more 'extreme' design in many areas, nonetheless i am concerned with safety in that particular zone of the car.

[Callum]

As an italian Ferrari supporter, what i really do not like about the SF70H is the roll-hoop area, from a safety point of view.

Maranello's designers have choosen after years of 'closed structures' to follow the path introduced by RedBull and other teams in 2009, with the front roll hoop somehow separated and visible from the outside...

It certainly passes the crash tests but to my eyes it seems so thin and fragile...

Also, the headrest is sooo low behind the helmet, and so the 'line' of the chassis connected to it, so there's space under the snorkel/air intake for blunt objects to go through there... also from behind.



Funnily enough, RedBull abandoned this roll-hoop concept right this year with the new RB13.

On a side note, after what happened to poor Jules Bianchi, I would have liked the teams to work together on a bigger and safer structure in that part of the car, not that crappy Halo thing that doesn't block objects flying towards the helmet and makes harder for the driver to leave the car when upside-down. Instead, side head protections structures are every year more and more invisible, while they should have gone for a mandatory 1996-F310-like solution, imho.

May I ask your opinion think on this?

Giando,

I suspect that a lot of the strength is hidden here and is in the roll hoop structure. I'm sure that the struts pictured will help the strength but are possibly also there for flow conditioning.

[roon]

As an italian Ferrari supporter, what i really do not like about the SF70H is the roll-hoop area, from a safety point of view.

Maranello's designers have choosen after years of 'closed structures' to follow the path introduced by RedBull and other teams in 2009, with the front roll hoop somehow separated and visible from the outside...

It certainly passes the crash tests but to my eyes it seems so thin and fragile...

Also, the headrest is sooo low behind the helmet, and so the 'line' of the chassis connected to it, so there's space under the snorkel/air intake for blunt objects to go through there... also from behind.



Funnily enough, RedBull abandoned this roll-hoop concept right this year with the new RB13.

On a side note, after what happened to poor Jules Bianchi, I would have liked the teams to work together on a bigger and safer structure in that part of the car, not that crappy Halo thing that doesn't block objects flying towards the helmet and makes harder for the driver to leave the car when upside-down. Instead, side head protections structures are every year more and more invisible, while they should have gone for a mandatory 1996-F310-like solution, imho.

May I ask your opinion think on this?

Giando,

I suspect that a lot of the strength is hidden here and is in the roll hoop structure. I'm sure that the struts pictured will help the strength but are possibly also there for flow conditioning.

Primarily they are there to provide the mandated pass-through for a lifting strap.

[wuzak]

Maranello's designers have choosen after years of 'closed structures' to follow the path introduced by RedBull and other teams in 2009, with the front roll hoop somehow separated and visible from the outside...

It certainly passes the crash tests but to my eyes it seems so thin and fragile...
http://i65.tinypic.com/v5ip9z.jpg

The strap you identify is not, IMO, the roll-over structure.

You cannot see the roll-over structure at all, since it is enclosed within the bodywork.

[TEHNOS]

[Giando]

Thank you Callum, Roon, Wuzak and TEHNOS for your kind answers.

So those two external supports have no structural purpose at all but to allow the car to be lift up by the marshals.

That said, the distance between the helmet and the 'real' hidden roll-hoop seems to be quite big in side view, then (not just on the Ferrari of course) while i think it may be better to have the highest point of the roll-hoop vertically aligned right where the headrest connects to the chassis. But this is maybe a more general subject to be discussed into a specific thread.