Red Bull RB20

[Watto]

I will be interested to see how RB evolve more than any other team since they decided to make some big changed to their designs (while keeping some of the fundamentals very much the same.what do they have planned.

None of this is surprising. Red Bull's concept became the only right one with the TD039 as it was far less dependent on low ride heights. While everyone else was thrown back and had to waste development capacity on correcting or adapting their concepts, Red Bull could simply develop further. Of course, this means you have developments in the drawer that you can simply "pull out" and in F1 you only do this when it is necessary. If you have a one-second lead, you don't need to make any major improvements. In the same way, if an opponent has something illegal on the car and you are 1 second faster anyway, you don't do anything about it. The best example of this is Michelin's tires from 2002/2003, which were built in such a way that their contact patch increased beyond the maximum size specified in the rules. Bridgestone and Ferrari already knew about this in 2002, but why say anything when you are much faster anyway? You'd rather save it until you need it, which wasn't until 2003. It's similar now with Red Bull. While others were busy adapting and correcting their concepts in 2022, they were able to continue developing undisturbed. Therefore, now that the opponents have come closer, they will bring some of the developments that they would normally have been ready for much earlier, but have developed "in reserve" due to the big lead. The only danger here is that these developments will not be as good as planed in reality. Or not work as you thought or that an opponent suddenly takes two steps at once. But Red Bull certainly still has one or two developments up its sleeve. Anything else would surprise me and would be grossly negligent.

Very true I think what Newey said the other day - much of what you’ve said makes sense with every moving to the rb19 concept they had to look elsewhere to maintain an advantage.

[JonoNic]

I will be interested to see how RB evolve more than any other team since they decided to make some big changed to their designs (while keeping some of the fundamentals very much the same.what do they have planned.

None of this is surprising. Red Bull's concept became the only right one with the TD039 as it was far less dependent on low ride heights. While everyone else was thrown back and had to waste development capacity on correcting or adapting their concepts, Red Bull could simply develop further. Of course, this means you have developments in the drawer that you can simply "pull out" and in F1 you only do this when it is necessary. If you have a one-second lead, you don't need to make any major improvements. In the same way, if an opponent has something illegal on the car and you are 1 second faster anyway, you don't do anything about it. The best example of this is Michelin's tires from 2002/2003, which were built in such a way that their contact patch increased beyond the maximum size specified in the rules. Bridgestone and Ferrari already knew about this in 2002, but why say anything when you are much faster anyway? You'd rather save it until you need it, which wasn't until 2003. It's similar now with Red Bull. While others were busy adapting and correcting their concepts in 2022, they were able to continue developing undisturbed. Therefore, now that the opponents have come closer, they will bring some of the developments that they would normally have been ready for much earlier, but have developed "in reserve" due to the big lead. The only danger here is that these developments will not be as good as planed in reality. Or not work as you thought or that an opponent suddenly takes two steps at once. But Red Bull certainly still has one or two developments up its sleeve. Anything else would surprise me and would be grossly negligent.

Very true I think what Newey said the other day - much of what you’ve said makes sense with every moving to the rb19 concept they had to look elsewhere to maintain an advantage.

I remember Newey saying that the RB20 was quite a conservative upgrade a few weeks back (When the Silverstone snapshots were leaked). Suddenly, Redbull Racing were quick to say it was a significant upgrade, not a conservative upgrade, like they were trying to steer away from what Newey said. I wonder if Newey meant that they only used a small percentage of the upgrades available to them. The laws of diminishing returns have not been reached yet.

[AR3-GP]

This is the closest you will get to seeing Particle Image Velocimetry (PIV) on the RB20. Not perfect since water is a heavy seed particle but good enough...Action starts at 00:09:30.

Interesting timestamps:
10:03: Outwash of the sidepods and mid floor edge is also visible from above.
10:17: Front wheel wake goes increasingly into the outer floor fence when steering angle is increased.
10:34: Asymmetry of sidepod outwash mid corner

I'm sure there's other things. Did Adrian approve this?

[organic]

Straight line



Yaw (mid corner, copse)

[tmoneyr007]

This is precisely where I see their RB20 cooling solution supporting Aero.

Left side inlet and halo cooling dumping air OUTSIDE of the left centerline, down the sidepod into the diffuser.

Increase diffuser performance on opposite side of corner (Left Rear) DF in the photo.

Yaw (mid corner, copse)

[OO7]

This is precisely where I see their RB20 cooling solution supporting Aero.

Left side inlet and halo cooling dumping air OUTSIDE of the left centerline, down the sidepod into the diffuser.

Increase diffuser performance on opposite side of corner (Left Rear) DF in the photo.

Yaw (mid corner, copse)

https://i.imgur.com/bkpBZCZ.jpeg

You really don't what hot turbulent air interfering with aero surfaces.

[Andi76]

This is precisely where I see their RB20 cooling solution supporting Aero.

Left side inlet and halo cooling dumping air OUTSIDE of the left centerline, down the sidepod into the diffuser.

Increase diffuser performance on opposite side of corner (Left Rear) DF in the photo.

Yaw (mid corner, copse)

https://i.imgur.com/bkpBZCZ.jpeg

You really don't what hot turbulent air interfering with aero surfaces.

Absolutely! I don't know how people keep coming up with the idea that hot air with little energy has a positive effect on aerodynamics. It doesn't. Just as little as the turbulent air that goes into the intake behind the rider's helmet is used for cooling. It is turbulent air with little energy that has hardly any thermal conductivity.

An interesting picture of Red Bull's top of the sidepod and floor:

[hollus]

It is turbulent air with little energy that has hardly any thermal conductivity.

That’s not true, its thermal conductivity is as good as for any other air, considering air as substance.
It might be worse for cooling, but only because you will be carrying less of it to the radiator, and then removing it a bit slower.
Your heat conduction is fine, your heat convection is less effective, though, compared to faster, more laminar air.

[venkyhere]

This is precisely where I see their RB20 cooling solution supporting Aero.

Left side inlet and halo cooling dumping air OUTSIDE of the left centerline, down the sidepod into the diffuser.

Increase diffuser performance on opposite side of corner (Left Rear) DF in the photo.

Yaw (mid corner, copse)

https://i.imgur.com/bkpBZCZ.jpeg

Being an aero novice, I can only see the left side sidepod undercut outwash being more 'outwards' during this right turn mid-corner shot, due to the yaw. What I am not able to see is what you meant by the first statement you made; if possible, can you please mark what you meant by hot air from sidepod radiators and halo cooling coming out 'OUTSIDE of the left centerline, down the sidepod and into diffuser' ? Though I understand what you mean theoretically, I can't 'see' it.
I can see the left portion of diffuser working more than the right portion, by looking at the skewed wake.

[f1rules]

from the video, the car exit the garage, it has quit a bit of rake, for these rules, now if its just because of the first run, rainy silverstone etc i dont know

[Andi76]

It is turbulent air with little energy that has hardly any thermal conductivity.

That’s not true, its thermal conductivity is as good as for any other air, considering air as substance.
It might be worse for cooling, but only because you will be carrying less of it to the radiator, and then removing it a bit slower.
Your heat conduction is fine, your heat convection is less effective, though, compared to faster, more laminar air.

Wrong? Not really. because it is about the cooling properties of precisely this type of air, which for certain reasons has a poorer thermal conductivity. So, what you are pointing out is exactly what I am actually saying and calling thermal conductivity ---> it dissipates less heat and is therefore bad for cooling, because of its properties. But there is more to consider. The air will not flow faster than the vehicle if the duct is blocked further down the line, which is the case with radiator ducts. It is therefore all the more important that the air flows in quickly where the intake air has a high velocity or high static pressure. If I feed in turbulent air with little energy, it will flow partially or even completely backwards, which is why this air is even less suitable for cooling.

[organic]

AMuS

[Quantum]

Unsure if this has already been posted, but a very intriguing aspect of Red Bull's ground effect era front suspension evolution.

[hollus]

It is turbulent air with little energy that has hardly any thermal conductivity.

That’s not true, its thermal conductivity is as good as for any other air, considering air as substance.
It might be worse for cooling, but only because you will be carrying less of it to the radiator, and then removing it a bit slower.
Your heat conduction is fine, your heat convection is less effective, though, compared to faster, more laminar air.

Wrong? Not really. because it is about the cooling properties of precisely this type of air, which for certain reasons has a poorer thermal conductivity. So, what you are pointing out is exactly what I am actually saying and calling thermal conductivity ---> it dissipates less heat and is therefore bad for cooling, because of its properties. But there is more to consider. The air will not flow faster than the vehicle if the duct is blocked further down the line, which is the case with radiator ducts. It is therefore all the more important that the air flows in quickly where the intake air has a high velocity or high static pressure. If I feed in turbulent air with little energy, it will flow partially or even completely backwards, which is why this air is even less suitable for cooling.

Yes, yes, I think we agree on the principles and we are discussing semantics.

You are an engineer (I am guessing) and think of the radiator first and foremost. Yes, turbulent air is worse at removing heat from it.
I am a chemist, think of the air itself first, and I would like to clarify that it is because of a difference in convection and not in thermal conductivity (a well defined concept with precise definitions).

Non turbulent air gives you more air for removing heat, but not “better” air, just more new air and shorter “contact” times.

In any case it appears that Newey is dead set on using all the best “high energy” air for aero and all the worst “low energy” air for cooling.

Which makes me think, can it be that Red Bull has a locked in advantage in radiator design? Better alloys, narrower passages, exchanger aero flow or similar.?

We’ll know soon if it was the right compromise.

[Watto]

This is the closest you will get to seeing Particle Image Velocimetry (PIV) on the RB20. Not perfect since water is a heavy seed particle but good enough...Action starts at 00:09:30.

Interesting timestamps:
10:03: Outwash of the sidepods and mid floor edge is also visible from above.
10:17: Front wheel wake goes increasingly into the outer floor fence when steering angle is increased.
10:34: Asymmetry of sidepod outwash mid corner

I'm sure there's other things. Did Adrian approve this?

Very cool footage had a bit of a laugh when GP asked how does it move, gps, a tracker to be told it was manually controlled by him.


Would be interesting to see if it could be adapted to a race somehow- though imagine the safely risks too much for now if it fell on the track etc , but it’s some cool footage