bunch of cheaters and liers... and nice people

[Mafster]

Lulu hamilton: Top cheater and lier in the world.

Caught Red Handed like so many times in his brief career. i say just wait and see him breaking the world record.. ohh by the way, is there any?

[Ciro Pabón]

The mood of this thread (specially the one of Richard Leeds, its starter) reminds me of the old racing joke, by Anonymous, that goes like that:

"I know the sonofab*tch is cheating! How do I know? 'Cause I'm cheating and he won!"

In truth, all cheaters are losers.

There is nothing more stupid that going against the rules, even thinking you're smarter than anyone and calling it "the limit".

In this case, you're putting all your achievements on the line. Why would you spend a gazillion dollars and go through many nights of work, just to end in a court of law, losing time in endless disputes?

I'm sure most people in F1 is smarter than that: they would be knitting, along with Stepney, along with all the mechanichs and engineers that participated in the "cases" that Richard shows as proof, if they weren't smarter.

I know that not everybody is cheating: I don't. That's enough for me. If, to be a winner, in a sport, you have to cheat, then, by all means, win over me. Who's the winner and who's the loser? Ask Clay Regazzoni, Richard Petty or Juan Manuel Fangio.

On the other hand, as Dave puts it, many fans rejoyce in the illusion, ethically "drowned" by their inability to win based on talent, that everybody that wins is a cheater like them. They use a magnifier glass to find the events and cases that support their opinion: "Look! The world is as rotten as I am! If it weren't, I could also win!". Poor guys.

[ISLAMATRON]

Lulu hamilton: Top cheater and lier in the world.

Caught Red Handed like so many times in his brief career. i say just wait and see him breaking the world record.. ohh by the way, is there any?

That is 1 record of MS's HAmilton could never beat.

Excellent post Ciro

[Richard]

Good post Ciro .... and much more eloquent than my knitting comment!

I should explain the knitting comment. A former boss used to tell us when we were in a "that's not fair" mindset about not winning a job that "life's not fair and if you don't like it then take up knitting" ... hopefully no one is going to inform us that the world of knitting is ruthlessly cut-throat !!!

Lulu hamilton: Top cheater and lier in the world.

Not just Lewis, remember that one who knocked his competitors off the track in order win the crown, not once but twice?

Anyway, this isn't about grading people on badness, it's about saying there is a certain rough and tumble that goes with this level of extreme competition, and that tumble sometimes crosses the line. People are pulled back, and we all move onto the next battle. We have to keep things in that context if we want to appreciate the extreme level of competitive ingenuity in this sport.

you fail to mention cases ....

Thanks for your examples, the extra details do show how one man's "cheat" is another man's "interpretation". (and I agree I'm no expert!)

Strict rules make no sense whatsoever if you cannot enforce them .... Most cheating cases are linked to poorly written rules and smart adaptations.

This is something I'd love to explore some more. Is there such a thing as a perfect rule? Could we say most rules in most sports (and most civil laws) are open to interpretation, hence confusion, hence the "cheat" problem??

[Patriiick]

Properly written rules are not open to interpretation. It is their technical relevance that matters.

[Mafster]

Well, To be honest i dont mind see people cheating (to win).. its human nature... if you are losing any game and given a chance to cheat and turn the situation, I bet you anything none will say no.. Ask you self instead giving explanations...

and.. Name any sport in the world where THINGS dont happen.. somebody mentioned MS took drivers out (Mind you i am not a Chumaxer Fan)... lemme ask you think... how many time he has been taken out.. let say.. in 1995 alone...

First people do watch F1, then they bitch about "Ohh he did that, oh he is that mean and bla bla bla..." tell you what.. if watching that is so much Pain in the A** for all those.. they6're better off watching bug racing... coz i think thats the only sport in the world (May be) where things dont happen.

[Giblet]

I have been given the chance more than once and each time have taken the high road.

My reason even though you don't want on?

Morals and a strong regard for sport and the value of winningand losing.

[Mafster]

Morals and a strong regard for sport and the value of winningand losing.

Excellent selection of words. But Only exist in books i m afraid.

[pjobmathew]

OK I admit that i'm a hardcore Williams fan . But if you see the banning of traction control from 1994 was definitely a move to bring Williams down as that was what made Williams a class act on the field . Also banned was CVT (continuously variable transmission) which was till then an unraced concept , but it was widely known that they had been developing it over the years . If put on the track that would have --- every other car on the track . Isn't that cheating by the FIA ??? Kill those bastards, they've made it so darn boring that i catch myself sleeping during GPs now.

Would you define clever engineering and exploitation of grey areas in rules which are made by idiots who amend them just for the sake of it as cheating ????? Diffuser Diffuser Diffuser...........

[pjobmathew]

OK I admit that i'm a hardcore Williams fan . But if you see the banning of traction control from 1994 was definitely a move to bring Williams down as that was what made Williams a class act on the field . Also banned was CVT (continuously variable transmission) which was till then an unraced concept , but it was widely known that they had been developing it over the years . If put on the track that would have --- every other car on the track . Isn't that cheating by the FIA ??? Kill those bastards, they've made it so darn boring that i catch myself sleeping during GPs now.

Would you define clever engineering and exploitation of grey areas in rules which are made by idiots who amend them just for the sake of it as cheating ????? Diffuser Diffuser Diffuser...........

Quote : xpensive
As for the Stepneygate, when I think about it, I still have some problems with being too upset with what really happened.

The disgruntled Ferrari Chief-mechanic takes a roll of paper-copies to his friend, a design-engineer at McLaren, why they together approach Honda with big plans but without any success that we are aware about.
The McLaren design-engineer's wife brings the paper-drawings to a photo-copy shop in order to have them on a CD, busted.

i hate Ferrari i hate McLaren . But the whole story sounds too lame , u're smarter when u cheat .

[flynfrog]

Properly written rules are not open to interpretation. It is their technical relevance that matters.

you have never been racing have you?

There is no such thing as a properly written rule book. Look holes are everywhere

[Richard]

i hate Ferrari i hate McLaren

Why "hate"? That's the bit I don't get.

[Giblet]

Morals and a strong regard for sport and the value of winningand losing.

Excellent selection of words. But Only exist in books i m afraid.

so you think since u can't comprehend someone not cheating, then icant change your mind otherwise.

I don't cheat at sport and never have. Many many others are the same. Sorry to destroy your lack of faith in peoples conduct.

[Mafster]

Morals and a strong regard for sport and the value of winningand losing.

Excellent selection of words. But Only exist in books i m afraid.

so you think since u can't comprehend someone not cheating, then icant change your mind otherwise.

I don't cheat at sport and never have. Many many others are the same. Sorry to destroy your lack of faith in peoples conduct.

Nobody is here to change anyone's mind... its impossible. but the point is. if someone wins, the loser(s) always point their fingers... "ooo their must "BE" something"... and... there you go

[ISLAMATRON]

The cheaters are usually the sorest losers.

Some of us hold ourselves to a higher standard and consider ourselves accountable to more than just our competitors and the stewards.