What are the rules pertaining to flexing parts on an F1 car?
I tought the rule was that no parts should flex and that the wing had to be desgined accordingly... however, watching the race just now, they had a nice Renault front wing cam and there was all kinds of flexing, especially during breaking and acceleration. Perhaps there is a limit to the amount of flexing on the wings but no other parts can flex ? (i.e. body pannels)
Just curious, so I was wondering what the interpretation to the rules are.
one thing that definetily flexes is the rv mirror,maybe things that do not have a direct effect on the downforce could be slightly flexible......at higher speeds there is flex in every part in the f1 car....definetily not visible....no car can achieve perfect torsional ridgidity......right mates??
"A RACECAR IS A VEHICLE THAT HAS NOTHING ON IT THAT IS NOT REQUIRED BY THE RULES OR THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT GO FASTER"
www.formula1.com wrote:3.17 Bodywork flexibility:
3.17.1 Bodywork may deflect no more than 5mm vertically when a 500N load is applied vertically to it 700mm forward of the front wheel centre line and 625mm from the car centre line. The load will be applied in a downward direction using a 50mm diameter ram and an adapter 300mm long and 150mm wide. Teams must supply the latter when such a test is deemed necessary.
3.17.2 Bodywork may deflect no more than 10mm vertically when a 500N load is applied vertically to it 450mm forward of the rear wheel centre line and 650mm from the car centre line. The load will be applied in a downward direction using a 50mm diameter ram and an adapter of the same size, Teams must supply the latter when such a test is deemed necessary.
3.17.3 Bodywork may deflect by no more than one degree horizontally when a load of 1000N is applied simultaneously to its extremities in a rearward direction 780mm above the reference plane and 130mm behind the rear wheel centre line.
3.17.4 Bodywork may deflect no more than 5mm vertically when a 500N load is applied vertically to it at a point which lies on the car centre line and 380mm rearward of the front wheel centre line. The load will be applied in an upward direction using a 50mm diameter ram, teams will be required to supply a suitable adapter when such a test is deemed necessary.
3.17.5 The uppermost aerofoil element lying behind the rear wheel centre line may deflect no more than 5mm horizontally when a 500N load is applied horizontally. The load will be applied 800mm above the reference plane at three separate points which lie on the car centre line and 250mm either side of it. The loads will be applied in an rearward direction using a suitable 25mm wide adapter which must be supplied by the relevant team.
3.17.6 In order to ensure that the requirements of Article 3.15 are respected, the FIA reserves the right to introduce further load/deflection tests on any part of the bodywork which appears to be (or is suspected of), moving whilst the car is in motion.
here're the rules, i thing renault is running on the limit, in the cam it flexed a lot but we wern't able to take note
I just read this on page 9 of Racecar Engineering Magazine - July 2005
"The FIA has introduced stricter rear wing flexibility tests after complaints about illegal wings being run in the opening rounds of this season. Teams now have to prove that the trailing edge of the rear wings is able to withstand a downward force of 200N without more than 5mm of distortion. Article 3.17.6 of the F1 techinical regs now reads: 'The forward-most aerofoil element lying behind the rear wheel centreline and more than 600mm above the reference plane may defelect no more than 5mm vertically when a 200N load is applied vertically.' Flexible aerodynamic elements are currently banned in F1, as they constitute a moveable aerodynamic aid....
It goes on to state the reason they were banned due to highspeed accidents on cars with fexible rear wings.
Anyway, it seems we were right, there was some 'cheating' earlier on in the season !
Cheating via flex wings was started two years ago by Ferrari. Than it became obviously popular by all teams - remember when Kimi's rear wing "exploded" to pieces?
If a team can design a wing or any other structure that passes the FIA's deflection test, but under running conditions behaves more favourably than a "rigid" wing, is that "cheating by the team" or failure on the part of the FIA technical committee to set a stringent enough test for flexure?
I know that this is obeying a law/regulation to the letter, but not the spirit or intent of the law. But if people in general obeyed the spirit of the law rather than the letter, the laws of most countries would be much shorter and tax lawyers would be unnecessary. Apologies to every1 for the divergent train of thought on obedience of regulations and laws.
While Michael was on his flying lap (and the camera showed him veeery slow), I think I've seen one of the small winglets placed on the bargeboards (down the left sidepod) moving upsidedown. Has anyonelse seen it and...is it legal? This is the image...
manchild wrote:Cheating via flex wings was started two years ago by Ferrari. Than it became obviously popular by all teams - remember when Kimi's rear wing "exploded" to pieces?
It was started long before 2003. Just, the teams have probably a better handle on aeroelasticity with carbon fibre components now than they did then.
I'm looking for a picture where it appears 2000 Ferraris' flex winglets (the one that were forbidden ) or, in case it wasn't possible, a draw would play the same role (I want to illustrate the explanation I've made about flex elements in F1)
Thanks;)
I don't think it's even debatable whether teams had flexing wing components a few years back. It happened, most must have been practicing this method. That's why there are now more stringent rules.
The problem is, just allowing the rear wing to flex a centimeter would gain benefits. So to discern this in a photograph would be difficult, unless it was a major distortion of a component.
But this wasn't practiced in just F1, I first heard of this in CART. And in NASCAR, they have a newer, very strict, enforced rule about the rear spoiler deviating from specifications.
Actually, in NASCAR, after tech inspection and before or even during the race, a crewman would "accidently" lean against the rear spoiler. That action would push the rear spoiler back a few degrees, giving less downforce and drag. Heck, even today teams try to push the front fender panels in or out during the race, (just like changing front wing angle) and the inspectors would sometimes force them to push the parts back before they would be allowed back in competition.
Those rules came about for a reason, because it was being done.
It's only "cheating" if it's being done in direct and knowing violation of rules. But before the specific, new rules, they were .... exploring the grey areas.
Returning to that specific Ferrari part on the bargeboard, I'm sure that if it actually flapped about, or changed pitch, the other teams would be crying foul, loud and far. Teams watch each other like hawks, they watch everything, in an effort to keep anyone else from any advantage, legal or not.
) or, in case it wasn't possible, a draw would play the same role (I want to illustrate the explanation I've made about flex elements in F1)