Brazilian GP 2009 - Interlagos, Sao Paulo

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djos
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Joined: 19 May 2006, 06:09
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Brazilian GP 2009 - Interlagos, Sao Paulo

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Giblet wrote:We like to speculate. That is a lot of what sports fans do. There is a whole betting industry based on this :)

I think that a team need to get through quali first. Having a dry setup will not win you the race if you start from the back, in a mediocre car, but it might make you beach the car and not quali at all, or even start from the pitlane.
Lol, I was waiting for that kinda response! 8)

The thing is you cant change springs & dampers etc in between qually and the race due to parc ferme rules and so the teams work out to the best of their ability what the race conditions will be like and setup the car for the race.

In the case of a wet qually, it is quite simple to jack the car up and apply some extra wing angle all of which can be undone prior to the race starting in the dry.

The problem MacMerc had is that the conditions simply exposed their cars poor aero package as the extra 80hp KERS gives them is useless when you cant use the engines own power to its full potential.

The RedBull and Brawn however where both easily adapted to wet conditions (well at least the 2 old warriors had no real issues!).
"In downforce we trust"

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ds.raikkonen
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Joined: 04 Apr 2007, 08:11

Re: Brazilian GP 2009 - Interlagos, Sao Paulo

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Tazio wrote:God I hope I get to see him standing on the top step of the podium crying his eyes out.
That would be epic!
Yeah, even yesterday in qualy, the crowd went bananas...."Rubien....Rubien..." it must ve been magic for him to get that respect from the crowd after 6 years, what with Massa dominating the Brazilians in the Ferrari.
I cant wait for him to do the dance thing he does everytime he s happy...
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“Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary...that’s what gets you.” - JC

Giblet
Giblet
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Re: Brazilian GP 2009 - Interlagos, Sao Paulo

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I thought I understood this but I must be missing something. You can change your ride height if the quali is wet and the race is dry?

I thought parc ferme meant no changes, aside from wing.

I thought that starting a dry race on a wet setup was a greater evil than starting a wet race on a dry setup.

So is ride height not part of parc ferme, or are there changes allowed between wet/dry?
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

ESPImperium
ESPImperium
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Re: Brazilian GP 2009 - Interlagos, Sao Paulo

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Giblet wrote:I thought I understood this but I must be missing something. You can change your ride height if the quali is wet and the race is dry?

I thought parc ferme meant no changes, aside from wing.

I thought that starting a dry race on a wet setup was a greater evil than starting a wet race on a dry setup.

So is ride height not part of parc ferme, or are there changes allowed between wet/dry?
I think i may have missed something as well, heres article 34 of the 2009 sporting regs:
34) POST QUALIFYING PARC FERMÉ
34.1 Each car will be deemed to be in parc fermé from the time at which it leaves the pit lane for the first time during qualifying practice until the start of the race. Any car which fails to leave the pit lane during qualifying practice will be deemed to be in parc ferme at the end of Q1.
Between these times, other than when cars are returned to the parc fermé overnight, the following work may be carried out :
- engines may be started ;
- subject to the requirements of Article 29.1 fuel may be added or removed and a fuel breather fitted ;
- wheels and tyres may be removed, changed or rebalanced and tyre pressures checked ;
- spark plugs may be removed in order to carry out an internal engine inspection and cylinder compression checks ;
- permitted heating or cooling devices may be fitted ;
- a jump battery may be connected and on board electrical units may be freely accessed via a physical connection to the car ;
- the main electrical battery and radio batteries may be changed ;
2009 F1 Sporting Regulations 19 of 43 11th July 2008
- the brake system may be bled ;
- engine oil may be drained ;
- compressed gases may be drained or added ;
- fluids used for replenishment must conform to the same specification as the original fluid. Fluids with a specific gravity less than 1.1 may be drained and / or replenished, however, no replenishment may take place less than one hour and 30 minutes before the start of the formation lap unless specific approval has been given by the FIA.
In order to ensure that fluids are not being used as ballast the FIA reserves the right to weigh cars which took part in Q3 at random during the one hour period commencing one hour and 30 minutes before the start of the formation lap. When a car is weighed in this way, and taking into account any fuel added under Article 29.1, its weight must be within 3kg of its weight at the completion of its final qualifying run, if not, fluids other than fuel may be replenished or drained under FIA supervision ;
- the aerodynamic set up of the front wing may be adjusted using the existing parts. No parts may be added, removed or replaced ;
- if the FIA technical delegate is satisfied that changes in climatic conditions necessitate alterations to the specification of a car, changes may be made to the air ducts around the front and rear brakes and radiator ducts. These changes may be made at any time after the message “CHANGE IN CLIMATIC CONDITIONS” is shown on the timing monitors, from this point the choice of air ducts around the front and rear brakes and radiator ducts is free, subject always to compliance with the relevant Technical Regulations.
- bodywork (excluding radiators) may be removed and / or cleaned ;
- cosmetic changes may be made to the bodywork and tape may be added ;
- any part of the car may be cleaned ;
- on board cameras, timing transponders and any associated equipment may be removed, refitted or checked ;
- any work required by the FIA technical delegate ;
- changes to improve the driver's comfort. In this context anything other than addition or removal of padding (or similar material) and adjustment of mirrors, seat belts and pedals may only be carried out with the specific permission of the FIA technical delegate ;
- repair of genuine accident damage ;
- any parts which are removed from the car in order to carry out any work specifically permitted above, or any parts removed to carry out essential safety checks, must remain close to it and, at all times, be visible to the scrutineer assigned to the relevant car.
Any work not listed above may only be undertaken with the approval of the FIA technical delegate following a written request from the team concerned. It must be clear that any replacement part a team wishes to fit is similar in mass, inertia and function to the original. Any parts removed will be retained by the FIA.
However, if a team wishes to change a part during the qualifying session and/or on the grid before the start of the race, this may be done without first seeking the permission of the technical delegate, provided it is reasonable for the relevant team to believe permission would be given if there was time to ask and the broken or damaged part remains in full view of the scrutineer assigned to the car at all times.
34.2 At the end of the qualifying practice at least six cars will be chosen at random to undergo further checks, once informed their car has been selected the team concerned must take the car to the parc fermé immediately.
34.3 At some time before 18.30 all cars used during the qualifying practice session (or which were intended for use but failed to leave the pit lane) must be taken to the parc fermé, where they will remain secure until the following day. For marketing purposes this deadline may be extended for one car from each competitor for a maximum of two hours by prior arrangement with the FIA technical delegate. However, no work of any kind may be carried out on the car after 18.30.
Whilst cars are in the parc fermé they may be covered and fitted with devices to keep them warm, no team personnel will be permitted there unless specifically authorised by the FIA technical delegate.
34.4 At 08.30 on the day of the race, or at other times if the relevant Event timetable makes this necessary, teams will be permitted to take their cars back to their garages where, again, they will remain under parc fermé conditions until the start of the race.
34.5 If a competitor modifies any part on the car or makes changes to the set up of the suspension whilst the car is being held under parc fermé conditions the relevant driver must start the race from the pit lane and follow the procedures laid out in Article 38.3.
34.6 One scrutineer will be allocated to each car for the purpose of ensuring that no unauthorised work is carried out whilst cars are being held under parc fermé conditions.
34.7 A list of parts replaced with the specific agreement of the FIA technical delegate whilst cars are being held under parc fermé conditions will be published and distributed to all teams prior to the race.
34.8 In order that the scrutineers may be completely satisfied that no alterations have been made to the suspension systems or aerodynamic configuration of the car (with the exception of the front wing) whilst in post-qualifying parc fermé, it must be clear from physical inspection that changes cannot be made without the use of tools.

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Mr Alcatraz
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Re: Brazilian GP 2009 - Interlagos, Sao Paulo

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Once the cars go into parc ferme you can't change the rear wind angle regardless of the rain. That setting has to be used in the race, At least that is the way it has been. Did something change this year?
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tadzio89
tadzio89
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Djos i don't understand what are u talking about. He was on dry setup. but he said "the car was quite competitive when it was very wet, and it was somewhat more difficult to drive with less water." why it was more competitive when it was very wet?

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De Jokke
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Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 02:51

Re: Brazilian GP 2009 - Interlagos, Sao Paulo

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I hope button get's taken out in first corner and barri wins + vettel takes points so that all three have to battle it out in Abu Dhabi.

funny how button can't seem to perform since turkey. [...] Or was it like usually: "I have understeer".

I really hope barri becomes champion this season. He deserves it.
Last edited by Steven on 19 Oct 2009, 12:33, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Aren't we supposed to be respectful to drivers?
Mercedes AMG + Hamilton => dreamteam!
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King Six
King Six
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Re: Brazilian GP 2009 - Interlagos, Sao Paulo

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Button will still luck out somehow. He's not going to win the title today, though, but I bet this race will make it easier than it could ever be for him at Abu Dhabi.

You just know something stupid is going to happen with all or most of the other drivers and somehow it all ends up in the favour of Button, it's the only story (on track) of the season.

The ideal situation would be a Rubens win, Button out of the points. I bet alot of people are hoping for that, it would make the trip to the UAE really exciting.

Anyway what's the conditions like today/forecast? I'm assuming the cars that qualified up front are on "wetter" layouts than the cars that qualified like a clown. So if today is dry, then all those front runners are in real trouble, and this is where we go full circle with Button and his stupid luck. It'll probably be dry today.

I hope not, at least damp conditions that require Inters for most of the race.

axle
axle
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Re: Brazilian GP 2009 - Interlagos, Sao Paulo

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De Jokke wrote:Missing some barri setup information ratboy?
I really don't see any need for this kind of behaviour on here. Name calling is so childish and pathetic.
- Axle

CMSMJ1
CMSMJ1
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Location: Chesterfield, United Kingdom

Re: Brazilian GP 2009 - Interlagos, Sao Paulo

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axle wrote:
De Jokke wrote:Missing some barri setup information ratboy?
I really don't see any need for this kind of behaviour on here. Name calling is so childish and pathetic.
+1

Let's play like adults. This race is going to be superb..I am very excited about it.

I imagine that Jenson can scrape a point or 2 and that Rubens will be beaten by Mark. Seb will drive like a crazy man!

The Macca and Seb, Jenson section of the grid will be fun to watch.
IMPERATOR REX ANGLORUM

Terrible3
Terrible3
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Joined: 25 Jul 2009, 21:06

Re: Brazilian GP 2009 - Interlagos, Sao Paulo

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Well the weather has worked in my favor, its dry (for the moment). Ham and Vettel may make an awesome charge forward. Fingers crossed........

roost89
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Re: Brazilian GP 2009 - Interlagos, Sao Paulo

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2 incidents in lap 1! I thought I was watching a highlights show!

Trulli vs Sutil. Trulli is not pleased with Sutil at all!

From replay: Trulli caught the grass and then lost it and spun wildly into Sutil and Sutils car hit Alonso, knocking him off the track and out of the race.

Heikki is doing a Massa. Running away with the fuel hose attached and Kimi's car set the spilt fuel on fire!
Last edited by roost89 on 18 Oct 2009, 18:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Giblet
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Re: Brazilian GP 2009 - Interlagos, Sao Paulo

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a little fire for the ice man
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

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zgred
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Re: Brazilian GP 2009 - Interlagos, Sao Paulo

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Image

Image

Singapore II

Terrible3
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Re: Brazilian GP 2009 - Interlagos, Sao Paulo

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As much as I want to see the WDC go to someone other than JB, he is driving like a moan possessed. Well done JB, and Vettel is doing well also with a lot more fuel.