Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[wesley123]

@robbert; note that the RB's fin was connected to both planes, the mclarens just to the second. Ironicly enough it was a design i drew last year already.

probably the area that isnt connected allows better yaw performance, the air can move freely over the first plane.

[ESPImperium]

I have a sneaky feeling that the McLaren has some new tripple decker diffuser! Although it is covered up - looks too big to be a double decker.

Are there any disadvantages to using the triple decker or is it just packaging and layout of components?

Yup, Toyota found that out, early season when all but Brawn and Williams had the DDD they didnt have much of a disadvantage, but by Turkey they had to change it back to a version of the DDD they tested last in pre season.

The Triple Deck has implications on drag, not for the car its self, but for the car following, Toyota found out that the Triple Decker could help certain cars punch thrugh the hole a little better and overtake them.

Best solution is the Double Deck version, as it provides more downforce to its drag ratio seemingly. A aero guy could better explain the consept better.

Personally id like to see the SDDs back, but allowable to be a steeper angle, not the 175mm high that they cuurrently are allowed, but to 200mm But id make the diffuser only have a maximum of 2 vaynes per side and the centre section to drop down to the current 175mm size to allow therear crash structure to come out.

[thestig84]

one thing is that panel behind the drivers name stiker we might have something differnt next week

I was thinking the same. I have heard from a good source.....ill not say too much detail where! (Not exactly design department but from the same company as the team) The car they will bring to the race will have changes to the fin, nose and the body bigger and more square.

Going to ask more on the square thing...bit worrying!

[countersteer]

This is as more a question than a comment. How much confidence should we have that the car displayed at "launch" is representative of the one that will take the grid?

If it were me, I'd put front and rear wings on it showing ideas that didn't work out... I'd put a engine cover on it with an anvil (if I plannned to NOT run one) or without an anvil (if I planned TO run one).

You could even go so far as to bolt up a spacer between the engine and tranny to extend the wheelbase and make up special panels to make it "look" real. How do we know that all of these parts are carbon fiber? Might they have been mocked up out of good ole fiberglass?

In my past, in the appliance industry, there was always a certain amount of gamesmanship that took place at trade shows. You'd display something wacky as "under development" just to mess with your competitors. Might the same thing be happening here?

Would appreciate comments of those more knowledgeable than I.

Guess we'll know at first test...

[Richard]

How much confidence should we have that the car displayed at "launch" is representative of the one that will take the grid?

Some of the teams are openly sticking on last year's wings for the launch (I think Ferrari said they were doing that before the launch).

Mercedes didn't even pretend but used last year's Brawn car in its entirety.

I suspect there wasn't even a diffuser on the McLaren at the launch, just an approximate box where the DDD should be.

one thing is that panel behind the drivers name stiker we might have something differnt next week

It does look a crude patch doesn't it?

I have a sneaky feeling that the McLaren has some new tripple decker diffuser! Although it is covered up - looks too big to be a double decker.

Are there any disadvantages to using the triple decker or is it just packaging and layout of components?

Yup, Toyota found that out, early season when all but Brawn and Williams had the DDD they didnt have much of a disadvantage, but by Turkey they had to change it back to a version of the DDD they tested last in pre season.

I refer you to this thread ... viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7580

[bonjon1979]

I have a sneaky feeling that the McLaren has some new tripple decker diffuser! Although it is covered up - looks too big to be a double decker.

Are there any disadvantages to using the triple decker or is it just packaging and layout of components?

Only one I can think of is that you may raise the centre of gravity as you're less able to have a pullrod suspension and I think you have to raise the gearbox to allow more room for the diffuser.

[Raptor22]

There is a large amount of gamesmanship at the launch of an F1 car.
Wings most certainly are two components of a car where the final versions are seen only at the first GP. Diffusors are another component where a unit showed is not the final version. Often the detail is deliberately a mock upthat is neither dimensionally nor conceptually accurate. Often a team will pick up waht areas of a cars development the media is hyping the most and create interest in their car by fitting something at launch that will provide the most coverage.

With the McLaren, the "anvil" connecting to the rear wing does not make sense. If they are venting hot air into the wing (lets assume that the rear wing element has vent within its cross section to allow hot air to bleed out from under the engine cover between the inner and outer skins of the wing (a sort of non mechanised flap blowing). What would be the thinking here? Are they saying that the vented air will speed up the flow around it increasing the efficiency of the wing and therefore the diffusor? If it works or not, it has created a discussion point and every time a photo of that area of the body is shown, the sponsors name is visible.

However the anvil design take away valuable surface area although that may be negated by compression of the feed stream flowing along the anvil.

see it working already, we're talking about it

[myurr]

Whilst they have covered the diffuser (or fitted a placeholder) and have put last years wings on the car, they do intend to run the car tomorrow (just three days after the launch). Much more than that would be an awful lot of effort for the sake of three days of misleading the other teams.

So I would suspect that the car that was launched will be run (with a diffuser although possibly still with last years wings) to provide a baseline and then new ideas and parts will be tried out over the test period. I can see them adding horns, trying the car without the anvil, etc. but I wouldn't expect any massive changes such as replacing the entire design of the sidepods with a totally different concept.

So yes to subtle updates, refinements, etc. and the odd new feature, no to bringing a totally different car to the first race.

[thestig84]

So yes to subtle updates, refinements, etc. and the odd new feature, no to bringing a totally different car to the first race.

The car will look similar for 1st test but very different for first race,
It was very behind schedule so its a long way from what they are aiming. The first test will be very much a base line test as suggested

[myurr]

So yes to subtle updates, refinements, etc. and the odd new feature, no to bringing a totally different car to the first race.

The car will look similar for 1st test but very different for first race,
It was very behind schedule so its a long way from what they are aiming. The first test will be very much a base line test as suggested

What on earth are you basing that on? I've not read anywhere that McLaren are 'very behind schedule'.

[thestig84]

So yes to subtle updates, refinements, etc. and the odd new feature, no to bringing a totally different car to the first race.

The car will look similar for 1st test but very different for first race,
It was very behind schedule so its a long way from what they are aiming. The first test will be very much a base line test as suggested

What on earth are you basing that on? I've not read anywhere that McLaren are 'very behind schedule'.

They were the same last year! Not massively just always a late rush for launch and have to rush together a car for launch. The person I know was speaking to one of the guys making a wishbone in front of him. Quite a good person to base it on i think.

[f1rules]

so that is just pure speculation on your part, yes they always finish the cars last night before launch but to say they are far behind, is pure speculaton from you

[jason.parker.86]

In answer to all of above - just compare 2009 launch car to the first grand prix...

even if they reveal the cars now, it would take months before a team could even think about copying an idea. usually first european gp is when the swoop of mods come!

[myurr]

If they were really behind then they would have delayed the launch like Red Bull. Would you say Red Bull were massively behind, or is the delay to their launch tactical?

If your friend was really that close to F1 then they would know that all the teams are in a last minute rush to get the cars ready - it's the only way to fully exploit the time available.

[thestig84]

so that is just pure speculation on your part, yes they always finish the cars last night before launch but to say they are far behind, is pure speculaton from you

No pure speculation would be if it was totally unfounded. This isnt. I was only trying to pass on some of the little snippits i have heard from within. Sure they may not be 110% spot on as I said its not exactly from the design team.

Dont worry I can see what your saying. Im not just trying to make stuff up for attention. Ill not pass on anything else I hear if you prefer.