Red Bull RB6

[ringo]

I think redbull's Achilles heel, is that they depend on one main designer. (...)

do you have any inside view of how RBR technical department is operating ?

nope

Newey holds position of Chief technical officer.
Rob Marshall is a Chief designer and he is the one signing the drawings.
There is also Peter Prodromou who knows thing or two about F1 car and, apart from mentioned trio, I am almost certain Newey was able to recruit few others smart guys.

ok, i was trying to say newey was the head innovator, i worded it wrongly. I was just getting at the idea that a Newey design may not be guaranteed success. It's too early to say though, the RB5 could have been so refined little changes were necessary to be competitive for 2010.

[Confused_Andy]

If this is the most refined RB5 we're going to see then what sort of updates can they bring to the table when the development race is in full swing mid season?

Might see another Brawn, at least with Macca, if their latest incarnation is crap they have a lot to improve on where as RBR have only what they know from the old car..

[segedunum]

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news ... y-q-a.html

few words from Newey about RB6.

That's pretty much what I've thought. 2010 is a natural progression, or at least it should be if you got 2009 right, which Red Bull did in the end. There wasn't a need for them to do anyhing massively radical because the performance was already there and with the lack of testing, not practical. It also meant that they didn't have to be out from the first test session making sure basic things were OK. They just progressed their proven design logically. The two biggest things they've looked at in detail are the front tyres and obviously the large fuel tank. They haven't needed to design a completely new car in addition to catch up, as other teams have had to do.

They have a pretty reasonable head start.

[PlatinumZealot]

=D> aah you notice it too.
I think this is the genius part that we were looking for.. The hot air from the side-pods just route into the diffuser. The sidepods are very similar to the Renault R29's side-pods. Except the Ranault side pods were not used to augment a diffuser.

You can also notice that the drive shafts are located much higher this year.

I don't understand the benefit of routing sidepod air into the diffuser. The diffuser must take air from under the car in order to make downforce. I'm skeptical the hot sidepod air is going into the upper diffuser.

I agree. The sidepod air is probably channeled to the central exhaust (mailbox style). The extended sidepods are probably about creating smoother/faster flow above the DDD. Such flow "bends" less (sorry for terminology, I am not a pro) downward and so the air is sucked more strongly from the DDD. So by making this section more slippery they can avoid directing the air above the DDD so much upward as, say, Renault. Does it make sense?

I mean as a augmenter to the diffuser. I played with a similar effect in solid works before. Renault also use a trick like this. I guess my first sentence got you off when i said "into the diffuser".

I mean that the air from the side-pods is sent through a converging duct to join the airstream coming from the upper diffuser. This fast stream helps to draw out more air from the diffuser. Remember it is unlikely that the top of the diffuser is horizontal so something else must be going on under there so that is what I suspect.




You can see how there is less doubling back of the air, less sepration from the roof and less stagnation near the top of the upper diffuser. Notice how Brawn and Sauber's upper differs have a "belly" to help with this slowing down of the air in the bottom of the top diffuser. But these augmenting slots are to help the air in the roof of the upper diffuser. The Renault and I think the new Mclaren put similar augmenter slots or gaps in the tops of their diffusers too. These use air from the outside though.

[segedunum]

It would be rather funny if everyone else was concentrating on aero and diffusers and Newey was the only one actually putting all his efforts on packaging and balance.

That's about the size of it. People are falling over themselves to talk about aerodynamics and how big their diffusers are when packaging and balance are going to be absolutely critical with 70 kilos of fuel wanting to move around under several G of force. Whoever can package that fuel efficiently, along with the engine and gearbox, in a finite amount of space and ensure that the components and aerodynamics around them are not compromised is gaining a big advantage in addition to the usual aerodynamic grip war. It's clear just by looking that Red Bull have compromised little, if any when compared to other teams on that front. The McLaren looks like a pregnant whale compared to the Red Bull and even to the Ferrari.

That's one of the areas where Newey scores ahead of others. Only he would decide to come up with a pull-rod suspension system at the rear just so he can gain the knock-on effect of having the back-end packaged exactly the way he wants. Every component affects everything else.

[Pandamasque]

This has to be a joke, right? They are the same car!!!!

It's not. The noses look different the sidepods and diffusers too... a bit. The front wings look identical though, as the bargeboadrs and podvanes/mirror mounts. The rear wings possibly too. Perhaps that is because they were carried over from the last year's car.

[Raptor22]

This has to be a joke, right? They are the same car!!!!

It's not. The noses look different the sidepods and diffusers too... a bit. The front wings look identical though, as the bargeboadrs and podvanes/mirror mounts. The rear wings possibly too. Perhaps that is because they were carried over from the last year's car.

Its clear from the pics that the TR5 is a modified RB5. The height of the tub is dfferent and the give away is the chassis sides. However from there aft, they are almost twins.
its so simlar it may as well have been designed by RBT (RBT acted as consultants to the design in a similar manner as Dallara for Campos).
STR is regarded as a new team this year. The first true STR will only emerge 18month after STR has completed the recruitment for their design and engineering department.
The diffusor's are also different for these cars.
Some are going to claim cynisism from Rec Bull but I believe it's a natural development when a team is "Starting up".

Give STR till 2012 but by then, if the cost cutting is working, we will see Mateshitz selling STR to a manufacturer or to another entity. For now , Red Bull gets 4 times more exposure than other title sponsors. o it works for them.

[bill shoe]

I mean as a augmenter to the diffuser. I played with a similar effect in solid works before. Renault also use a trick like this. I guess my first sentence got you off when i said "into the diffuser".

I mean that the air from the side-pods is sent through a converging duct to join the airstream coming from the upper diffuser. This fast stream helps to draw out more air from the diffuser. Remember it is unlikely that the top of the diffuser is horizontal so something else must be going on under there so that is what I suspect.





You can see how there is less doubling back of the air, less sepration from the roof and less stagnation near the top of the upper diffuser. Notice how Brawn and Sauber's upper differs have a "belly" to help with this slowing down of the air in the bottom of the top diffuser. But these augmenting slots are to help the air in the roof of the upper diffuser. The Renault and I think the new Mclaren put similar augmenter slots or gaps in the tops of their diffusers too. These use air from the outside though.[/quote]



n smikle-

OK, I understand what you're getting at. Good picture, thanks. Looking forward to better pics of the RB6's butt.

[D'Leh]

There have been quite some pictures showing the similarities between the RB6 and the TR5. But have a look at these.




Crash structure and beam wing look quite different.

[zgred]

[horse]

I concede the rear of the two cars are very different. I wonder if this implies that the front of the RB6/STR5 was penned prior to the official split of the two teams?

EDIT: Starter hole looks a bit odd. Did they forget to design one in? It looks like it's been cut out.

[segedunum]

I concede the rear of the two cars are very different. I wonder if this implies that the front of the RB6/STR5 was penned prior to the official split of the two teams?

Well, considering that the Torro Rosso and Red Bull share a common lineage, they shared car designs prior to this year, and the RB5 and TR5 are simply evolutions of the 2009 design for 2010 then yes, in general bodyworking both cars are going to appear very similar. However, there is enough to suggest that underneath they're very different cars, and the Ferrari in the TR5 would have necessitated some large divergences from the Red Bull.

I don't know what people want to see in this.

[i70q7m7ghw]

This has to be a joke, right? They are the same car!!!!

Now the interesting question is, who borrowed the design from who? STR borrowed from Adrian Newey or (SHOCK HORROR) Adrian Newey borrowed from STR????

... or both cars are the same as last year?

Word is RB where to conservative in their design, they're a test behind everyone else with lots of speed to find. They'll be mid field this year.

[D'Leh]

Word is RB where to conservative in their design, they're a test behind everyone else with lots of speed to find. They'll be mid field this year.

And who's word is that? Yours? Excuse me, but what's your point? Late last year the Austrian team was dominating with wins from Suzuka to Abu Dhabi. So if they build up on their car how is that bad? And besides, how long have you been following F1? Do you really think the car will look the same in Bahrain? Seems to me as if you're just trying to pull someone's leg with your wild guesses. Please do that in some random thread in general discussions. Thank you.

[allan]

Word is RB where to conservative in their design, they're a test behind everyone else with lots of speed to find. They'll be mid field this year.

And who's word is that? Yours? Excuse me, but what's your point? Late last year the Austrian team was dominating with wins from Suzuka to Abu Dhabi. So if they build up on their car how is that bad? And besides, how long have you been following F1? Do you really think the car will look the same in Bahrain? Seems to me as if you're just trying to pull someone's leg with your wild guesses. Please do that in some random thread in general discussions. Thank you.

LOL
Why are you biting the guy's head off? He's just stating an opinion