2010 Winter Testing

[outer_bongolia]

I just wish that the teams were allowed to do 2 car pre season tests again.

What id like to see for 2011 for pre season:

* All cars launched for end of January
* 6 official tests between 4 tracks, Barceloan, Jerez, Valencia (Circuit Ricardo Tormo), Portamao.
* Teams to have last 2 tests as single car tests, before that they can have 2 car tests if they want.
* First 3 tests to be 3 day tests, last 3 tests to be 3 day tests
* Tests must be equally split between race drivers and test drivers, 7 days testing each (In order to get a reserve up to speed with the car before season, avoid the Badoer/Grosjean situation before the season starts)
* Shakedowns of cars must be done at an apporved FIA track in that teams base country and be limited to no more than 20 full laps of that track.

Mid season, id like to see this:

* Three 3 day tests at Jerez, Portamao and Circuit Ricardo Tormo.
* Only third/test/development drivers can test on theese days.
* 100 laps a day maximum distance.
* Each team must attend one test.

Lets get the test rules a little looser in areas, but a little tighter in others. Id like to see more testing, but in a economically sustainable way and in a way where all the drivers can get the feel of the cars they drive, and where improvements can be rapidly made, but rapidly made after every 4th GP where new parts can be added, so GP No6, No10 and No14 are the only GPs where parts can be added, and a evaluation test will be before each GP. The first 6 Gps will be under end test spec, and the first improvement can only be added once the teams are back for the first GP in Europe. This is the only way i can see where costs can be cut massivly in F1, i do follow a bit of Garry Andersons philosiphy in this area.

I agree with most of your points.

The only part that I have to question is the part about new parts. Teams have to have new elements for the changing downforces of tracks. It would be weird to have no new parts at Monaco - or Monza... Also, you have to allow the teams who do not have the resources of the stronger (i.e. richer) teams to catch up.

How about saying something like "the bottom 8 teams get to bring new parts to any grand prix"?

[myurr]

How about saying something like "the bottom 8 teams get to bring new parts to any grand prix"?

That smacks of artificial manipulation - may as well just put extra ballast in the championship leading cars and be done with it. Rules should be equally and evenly applied to all.

[outer_bongolia]

How about saying something like "the bottom 8 teams get to bring new parts to any grand prix"?

That smacks of artificial manipulation - may as well just put extra ballast in the championship leading cars and be done with it. Rules should be equally and evenly applied to all.

I agree it's artificial. But even with a cap, Ferrari and Macca (and I am a big fan of Macca) will find a way to spend millions more. My only aim was to make sure that small teams would be able to catch up with improvements. Even if it is artificial, they could gain some points - and extra cash which would help them land a fee soins.

[snowy]

I've been following winter testing for a number of years now and whilst it is clear that the teams do try to mask or beef up their true pace, they are actually not particularly good at it. Or should I say they don't put an enormous amount of effort into it. They are aware that the other teams have eyes and ears and it isn't particularly difficult for the opposition to determine your strengths, weaknesses and your performance.

Last season it was immediately obvious that Red Bull were strong and that Ferrari were not particularly quick. It was also patently obvious that McLaren and Renault were incredibly slow. Along came Brawn GP and all the talk was of light fuel, glory runs and under weight, it only took one long run to reveal all. The reality was immediately evident yet few commentators were ready to embrace it.

We don't have the luxury of a massive shift in regulations, the field is a lot tighter and the weather has been throwing a curve ball but it will still be possible to determine where the teams stand before the first race of the season.

Why do we bother following and discussing testing?
It is because we are human beings and it is in our nature to want to know what is happening and why. Without developing the ability to predict what may or may not happen, our lives would be full of surprises and novelty! However, not all the surprises and novelties will be to our liking and a lot of unpleasant things could actually have been avoided. Knowing what F1 teams are up to and pondering why, may not seem particularly constructive but it is our way of exercising a most important cognitive muscle.

Being able to tell who is well informed, intuitive, misguided, speculative, arrives at conclusions logically or tangentally is also an essential part of our social armoury. Whether you base your decisions and predictions on your gut feeling or logical consideration of all available data, you still can't escape the fact that you are seeking to know the world better.

The boffins say McLaren & Red Bull, then Ferrari, then Mercedes, BMW Sauber...

Snowy says Ferrari, McLaren, Red Bull?, Mercedes, BMW Sauber... But I haven't been trackside watching the cars, so my gut isn't fully engaged.

[Paul]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that we've seen tires being changed on F1 cars for a few years now, and I'm fairly certain that they haven't been timing the tire changes to coincide perfectly with the amount of fuel going in the car! If an F1 team is already established, surely they should know how to change tires quickly by now...

But mechanics had the comfort of knowing they had extra 2-3 seconds before refuelling ended. When cars came in late in the race for a 4-5 second refuelling, quite often things didn't go that well. Now tyre change = pit stop time, and that adds pressure. Going for extra 0,1 second might mean risking total disaster.

[snowy]

It is absolutely wonderful that pitstops will again become a test of human skill, ability to withstand pressure and no longer just a question of how much fuel is needed for the next stint. There will actually been a point in televising pitstops! =D>

[Mr Alcatraz]

I've been following winter testing for a number of years now and whilst it is clear that the teams do try to mask or beef up their true pace, they are actually not particularly good at it. Or should I say they don't put an enormous amount of effort into it. They are aware that the other teams have eyes and ears and it isn't particularly difficult for the opposition to determine your strengths, weaknesses and your performance.

Last season it was immediately obvious that Red Bull were strong and that Ferrari were not particularly quick. It was also patently obvious that McLaren and Renault were incredibly slow. Along came Brawn GP and all the talk was of light fuel, glory runs and under weight, it only took one long run to reveal all. The reality was immediately evident yet few commentators were ready to embrace it.

We don't have the luxury of a massive shift in regulations, the field is a lot tighter and the weather has been throwing a curve ball but it will still be possible to determine where the teams stand before the first race of the season.

Why do we bother following and discussing testing?
It is because we are human beings and it is in our nature to want to know what is happening and why. Without developing the ability to predict what may or may not happen, our lives would be full of surprises and novelty! However, not all the surprises and novelties will be to our liking and a lot of unpleasant things could actually have been avoided. Knowing what F1 teams are up to and pondering why, may not seem particularly constructive but it is our way of exercising a most important cognitive muscle.

Being able to tell who is well informed, intuitive, misguided, speculative, arrives at conclusions logically or tangentally is also an essential part of our social armoury. Whether you base your decisions and predictions on your gut feeling or logical consideration of all available data, you still can't escape the fact that you are seeking to know the world better.

The boffins say McLaren & Red Bull, then Ferrari, then Mercedes, BMW Sauber...

Snowy says Ferrari, McLaren, Red Bull?, Mercedes, BMW Sauber... But I haven't been trackside watching the cars, so my gut isn't fully engaged.

Great freakin' post/commentary! =D> The only thing that I would like to add, is that a part of every individual's "social armory" is the existentialism that should not be ignored. We are what we think we are, and therefore so is everyone else.
Intuitive reasoning is an extension of ones rational reasoning, while filling a space inside you that has to feel something. JMVHO

[audifan]

truth of the matter is that you can only see through the teams' attempts to disguise what is happening if you are there and know what it all means ; what the press tells you is dubious in the extreme , it is designed to fill column inches and catch the eye of the punters ..if they want co-operation from the teams they won't tell all even if they know it !
what has happened at jerez has no meaning for me ..I wasn't there

but I WAS at valencia for 6 hours a day , and if you use your stop watch , meteo equipment and your eyes you can get a good idea of the truth ..reading what the press say and readings from the airport weather station will mislead you

frankly most of the comment here is from people who were not at the track and is gleaned from the internet ...I also like to speculate but it doesn't mean anything when I do , so you won't find a post from me regarding jerez

let me give you an example , car's stopping on track ; it is obvious when you are at the track which cars have a problem and which don't ; at valencia there were comments from the press about breakdowns when it was obvious to anyone with a modicum of knowledge what was actually happening ; the reported weather conditions , temperature progressions etc were inaccurate ...I presume the teams /bridgestone have accurate figures but they ain't talking

needless to say when someone comments on this site that ...we don't believe you ... it makes me wonder if people just believe what they want to believe ..I suspect that is the case

[djones]

audifan-

Which cars 'looked' best at the test?

I have been to a test session at Silverstone and you see so much more than on TV etc.

The Ferrari there for example looked to flow so much more than say the Mclaren at the time. It looked like Massa was hardly putting in any effort yet HK was constantly fighing the car, mainly on exit.

[Pup]

frankly most of the comment here is from people who were not at the track and is gleaned from the internet ...I also like to speculate but it doesn't mean anything when I do , so you won't find a post from me regarding jerez

Haven't you missed the point? Talking out of our collective keisters about testing is fun - try it sometime.

[Mr Alcatraz]

Haven't you missed the point? Talking out of our collective keisters about testing is fun - try it sometime.

#16 green sinker hit squarely on the head with a 22oz framing hammer!

[audifan]

djones , yes , you are quite right , you do see MUCH more than at a race ; logical when you think about it because you can concentrate on one car /driver combination over a number of laps until someone else captures your attention and you switch away to that ; I was lucky in that I was with someone else and we worked together , comparing notes , his wife helped with timing as well

but there is no quick answer to your question because valencia is a micky mouse stadium circuit with only one decent straight , so aero effect didn't rank greatly ; bearing that in mind my 'impressions ' were as follows

FERRARI , as generally reported , looked in good form ; if you factor in track conditions on the various days massa was a little faster than alonso ; having said that massa did a lot of laps and was going for it , alonso came out , learning a new car , and was impressively smooth and test driver like ...he went up in my opinion except he couldn't resist wasting his time toying with a struggling button to play to the gallery ...finally he got his knuckles rapped and got on with the job ; so overall , in good form ...bear in mind though that if reports about them complaining about other cars diffusers are to be believed , this is where you would expect them to perform best

McLAREN ....paffet did day 1 with green track and coldest ; just did longish runs and competitive times , test driver stuff very impressed with his accuracy
day 2 , hamilton .... I expected some aggressive driving but exactly the opposite , smooth precise lines , just appeared to amble around to get data but was quick nevertheless ; after 3 years he now looks the complete driver ...no wonder frank williams says he is the driver that comes along every 20 years or so;
button , as reported , just in and out , slow , a little improvement as the day went by , but clearly ill at ease in a car that he didn't fit and wasn't to his style whereas both paffet and hamilton were smooth as silk from the beginning
overall , tha car looked about at the same level as ferrari on this type of track imho

MERCEDES rosberg looked at home from early on , difficult to judge what his was programme was , but the car looked not far behind ferrari McL in basic speed ; ross has since been quoted as saying they are a touch behind and that is the impression I have on this type of circuit
schu went out and looked as though he has never been away ; smooth test driver type laps , you knew where his gearchange would be to within a foot on each lap , about as far behind the top 2 teams as you would have expected at this stage
overall , a touch behind the top 2

SAUBER ...surprise of the week ; I always wondered why DLR had been kept as test driver at McL fo so many years ....now I know ...he is brilliant at the job ; if only he was a racer as well !well this year is his chance ; here he didn't look to be trying , never put a wheel out of line ; on the other hand his team-mate was a little quicker , but he attacked nearly all the time , wheel on the grass , kicked up the gravel ; looks a good pairing of young gun and safe pair of hands by peter sauber
overall , about level with mercedes

WILLIAMS am I correct in thinking that hulk was test driver here last year ? anyway he looked , if anything , more at home that reubens to begin with , but reubens soon seemed to settle and they both looked comfortable , and not a million miles off the pace ; but with a brand new engine it is impossible to come to an overall conclusion at this stage except to say that there is nothing dramatically wrong with the chassis

TORO ROSSO come back , adrian newey , we need you ! afraid the new chassis looks very off the pace , but buemi impressed by his ability to keep it on the track ; his spanish team-mate , however , really struggled to do so , looked completely out of his depth
conclusion ...presuming the engine is competitive , a mountain to climb ; but it is their first in house chassis

RENAULT

with new drivers it is difficult to judge , but at first sight no move forward from last year ; kubica seemed to settle in ok but has a lot to do in a new team ; petrov is , of course , right in at the deep end
conclusion ...with so much new in the team , unfair to expect much progress this year


anyhow , no doubt everything will have changed by the time of the barcelona test

[Giblet]

audifan's translation:

"Hi, since I happen to live close enough to where the F1 cars test, I am better than you, and therefore you should not bother talking about it."

He forgets that at a race, you can pick a good spot to watch the practice, and see the inherant weaknesses and strengths in a car that has ALREADY BEEN TESTED and is now set up specifically for a track.

Now, since you can't see it live, please don't bother watching the Olympics on TV. There is no way you can tell what is properly going on from your vantage point.

/s

[mx_tifoso]

^^ Did someone wake up on the wrong side of bed on this wonderful Monday morning?

[Mr Alcatraz]

audifan's translation:

"Hi, since I happen to live close enough to where the F1 cars test, I am better than you, and therefore you should not bother talking about it."

He forgets that at a race, you can pick a good spot to watch the practice, and see the inherant weaknesses and strengths in a car that has ALREADY BEEN TESTED and is now set up specifically for a track.

Now, since you can't see it live, please don't bother watching the Olympics on TV. There is no way you can tell what is properly going on from your vantage point.

/s

Dude that's cold blooded!
I knew there was something
that endeared your performances to me