Mercedes GP MGP W01

[wesley123]

it is all about how revolutionairy the rear diffuser is, if it shows new stuff then doubt it wil show up, if it is just regular bussiness they will likely run it.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Personally I dont think its about the diffuser as everyone has a grasp of the Double diffuser concept. Unless there is a huge gain from a revolutionary idea.

Yes the new Diffuser and the front wing(if there is one I hope) are vital to the pace of WO1 but what effect will it have on tyres.

Tyres are the single most important factor I feel.

The real gains are from how to make the tyres work consistently, As even the best diffuser in F1 would look pretty stupid when the tyres go "off".
James Allen is suggesting teams will be doing one stop. ONE STOP!
Thats 30+ laps on the prime tyre. And if that goes off quickly you will be hammered by having to make the extra stop.
So any team with a car that can run on its tyres effectivley for that amount of laps, will have an advantage over any other team.

Ferrari are said to have pace and appears to use its tyres sparingly, while still able to get heat into them over a single lap!
This is a devastating combination if proved accurate. But it is the subject of specualtion and is not really fact just yet.

However when you compare the "drop off" Mercedes had compared to McLaren and Renault when doing longer stints it appeared to lose less time after its tyres went through its usually wear phase. This actually bodes very well, but again, its specualtion as to how much time and fuel were in all the cars involved.

[BreezyRacer]

We think alike, Evil Twin. The main reason for one tire stop is because tire blankets are now out. Therefore it will be interesting to see just how long it will take fro tires to get to temp under these rules. I say about 2 laps, depending on the track, etc. Every tire change is going to cost about 5 seconds just for the the track performance you lose trying to get heat into the tires.

Also mixed condition races are going to be far different now.

Tire control is THE thing in 2010 and getting the balance right over the fuel load is job 1 in attaining an advantage.

Personally I have to worry that all this (no fueling and tires regs) will make the racing pretty boring. It removes a lot of race strategy so that by halfway/pit stops the race has run.

[f1rules]

exactly, thats why this worries me as well, things can always get better, and since the frontwing determines the rest of the car, its a part you will test asap. Either Mercedes is waiting, having concentrated in mechanical setup and reliability, to introduce their new aero, or they have been way to conservative in their approach. Since waiting until the last test to introduce a new aero seems highly unlikely to me, im left to believe Mercedes has choosen a way to conservative route. In my book, Its no way near ambitious enough to start with the same frontwing as last year. But i hope im wrong

As the front wing forms the basis of what happens to the air for the rest of the car, it is vital you get it right.
Now to have a low nose concept as in the BGP001 then to move to the high-low nose of the W01 whilst keeping the same front wing is not desirable.

The reason is(while im no expert of aero) the different concepts have different aero requirements. I cannot see a design being so different as before requiring the same front wing. This just is not possible in my mind.

I will gladly take on board any other opinions, My bottom line is I would be extremely dissapointed as a Mercedes fan if there is no change for the first fly away races of the season.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Personally I have to worry that all this (no fueling and tires regs) will make the racing pretty boring. It removes a lot of race strategy so that by halfway/pit stops the race has run.

I see there being more factors initially at least. Teams are still learning about the tyres and the rate of wear. This will take at least a whole season to master, it is this unkown which is one reason I'm especially excited by 2010.

The driver can overcook the tyres in the space of a lap charging down an opponent.
They can gain places easier if they are prepared to sit out a phase of the tyre being depleted. And if they both go hammer and thong, The guy behind them benefits!
No more Tulli trains!!! =D>

[BreezyRacer]

Personally I have to worry that all this (no fueling and tires regs) will make the racing pretty boring. It removes a lot of race strategy so that by halfway/pit stops the race has run.

I see there being more factors initially at least. Teams are still learning about the tyres and the rate of wear. This will take at least a whole season to master, it is this unkown which is one reason I'm especially excited by 2010.

The driver can overcook the tyres in the space of a lap charging down an opponent.
They can gain places easier if they are prepared to sit out a phase of the tyre being depleted. And if they both go hammer and thong, The guy behind them benefits!
No more Tulli trains!!! =D>

Yes, the last time we had tires that had to go the whole race was pretty neat to see who was best a at tire conservation. It rescued Coltard's whole career.

[Roger the knife]

Personally I have to worry that all this (no fueling and tires regs) will make the racing pretty boring. It removes a lot of race strategy so that by halfway/pit stops the race has run.

I see there being more factors initially at least. Teams are still learning about the tyres and the rate of wear. This will take at least a whole season to master, it is this unkown which is one reason I'm especially excited by 2010.

The driver can overcook the tyres in the space of a lap charging down an opponent.
They can gain places easier if they are prepared to sit out a phase of the tyre being depleted. And if they both go hammer and thong, The guy behind them benefits!
No more Tulli trains!!! =D>

Yes, the last time we had tires that had to go the whole race was pretty neat to see who was best a at tire conservation. It rescued Coltard's whole career.

I'm happy to see a reduction in all this so called "Strategy", I want to see drivers driving the wheels off their cars, and the most complete driver wins, not the smartest guys on the pit wall

[ringo]

The fastest car with the best tyre wear wins you mean!
If it means one driver has to hold back to save tyres, when the other driver in another car can give it 100% without much drama from the tyres because aero and mech grip are so good, then we can have another case of 2009.
I have a feeling the tyres will be much harder this year and maybe more resilient, so who knows if tyre "caring" will stand out more than fuel efficiency or pit-stop times, or even driver skill.

I like that someone brought up the argument for the hi-low nose. It was puzzling me also. I think this design can work with well designed barge boards like ferrari or FI, or they can totally switch to a whole new nose design, similar to a red bull and use what is proven to work.

[raymondu999]

Thats 30+ laps on the prime tyre. And if that goes off quickly you will be hammered by having to make the extra stop.

I'd be more worried about having to do 30+ laps on the option though... those would probably die off in 15 or even less laps depending on the track

[PlatinumZealot]

Back to the diffuser and nose for a second. I think Brawn is just running them to try to understand why he did not get the desired results from the upgrades to the BGP001 from last year. He doesn't have the Honda money nor as much time to spend on the aerodynamics this time around so he and his team have to FULLY understand how and why the parts behave they way they do and then devise a systematic method for improving the shape of them. If this goes well then it means that every upgrade to the W01 will be as optimised as possible.

[marcush.]

seriously ,the 2009 wings were used on a quite different car(front tyre dimension,shape of tub,suspension layout,airbox design ,rearend cover etc.
what can you possibly learn from putting those parts into a different experiment?
would you know that they will not work there as they did in 2009...that was clear.
But what is the gain when compared to the 2010 bits ?the gain in effieciency over the whole 2009 car ? but then you did not compare them under identical conditions .the difference in 2009/2010 aero on 2010 car ?hardly a valid point.
To me they just stick on those bits to gain time on production of 2010 addon parts with this approach .Those first tests are nothing more than ironing out the big issues ,the real performance testing starts in barcelona.

[JohnsonEvilTwin]

I agree with Marcush,

The current use of 2009 wing and diffuser is not a serious aerodynamic package.
They are using the "old" aero aids for a number of reasons.

1)Mainly its easier and cheap to add to the car.
2)You know what you aere getting in terms of downforce.
3)It lengthens the lead time your rivals have in copying any ideas you may have.

Its this last point that I think is most likely. With the Low-High nose concept, it stands to reason that the front wing will at least look slighlty different. In turn the Diffuser will also be slighlty changed as the airflow from the front will have changed.

If Brawn has done his numbers correctly, The new add ons will be worth alot more time. And The only team to have run aero tests so far has been McLaren.
Mercedes GP have run diagnostics, fuel consumption and tyre comparisons in their tests. Outright one lap pace hasnt been tested, hence less than stellar performances so far. Barcelona is where most teamsd will be looking at 1 lap pace, so perhaps Mercedes will bring the upgrades for the test tommorow???

Of course I could be wrong and Mercedes will use the current diffuser and wing for the rest of the season.

[Carlo's]

And The only team to have run aero tests so far has been McLaren.

And Sauber.

[imightbewrong]

And The only team to have run aero tests so far has been McLaren.

And Sauber.

And Force India

[JohnsonEvilTwin]

Okay Sauber and Force India too!