Hispania F110

[sticky667]

this is a test session for them. they are racking up reliability miles.

[Afterburner]

I just hope this "test session" doesn't end with a mirror on someones face, when i saw those pieces falling apart reminded me Massa/Hungary last year.

[BorisTheBlade]

I thought Zinardi still used carbon brakes, but had a loy of difficulty adapting to them as CART used steel. I think that was the cause of the time difference. I dont recall Williams actually switching him to steel.

That's the best source I could find:
http://archive.atlasf1.com/news/1999/aug/1561.htm

It's been mentioned by RTL's Christian Danner back then.

[gridwalker]

I simply cannot believe that they have let Chandok out there in quali for what is essentially a shakedown test : it is simply irresponsible.

I am all for getting the new guys up to speed, but the safety implications are horrendous!

[thestig84]

I simply cannot believe that they have let Chandok out there in quali for what is essentially a shakedown test : it is simply irresponsible.

I am all for getting the new guys up to speed, but the safety implications are horrendous!

Horrendous?? Didnt notice any added danger with KC on track. He did a great job, well done HRT

[gridwalker]

I simply cannot believe that they have let Chandok out there in quali for what is essentially a shakedown test : it is simply irresponsible.

I am all for getting the new guys up to speed, but the safety implications are horrendous!

Horrendous?? Didnt notice any added danger with KC on track. He did a great job, well done HRT

Nobody noticed any danger with the Virgin cars until the wheels started falling off.

This is the problem with risk assessment : most dangers remain unseen unless reviewed in minute detail ... who would have guessed that an air gun would be under-torqued just by looking at TV footage?

I am a trained health and safety officer, as is my girlfriend : the risks associated with placing untested machinery under such high stress circumstances in a situation that could endanger lives would simply not be tolerated in virtually any other industry that I can think of.

Think about the number of untested parts that could have a catastrophic failure, which could lead to disasterous consequences. Didn't a suspension spring come within a hair's breadth of killing Massa last year? Didn't we see a number of wing failures affecting the new teams during winter testing? There are many things that COULD have happened, just because they didn't happen doesn't mean that the risk didn't exist.

[thestig84]

Oh dear dont get me started on health and safety! I can see how you are looking at it from your work point of view but the example of the wheels falling off isnt very good. Name me one team that hasnt had a problem with wheels in the past!?

Would you not allow renault to race last year due to health and safety after hungary? Did that make them and unfit dangerous team for the rest of the year....no. We did see a spring failure from the Brawn last year, showing the risk in the sport with a well tested car.
F1 is full of risk, teams and drivers know what they are signing up to.

[roost89]

I'm sorry this is still off-topic but clarity is required:
The reason the wheel came off was because the retainers, pins which are automatically fired (originally manual), didn't click into place.
The reason all the other wheels (at least the rear ones) didn't come off is because the retainers did work. Keeping the wheel attached to the car.

On topic: I don't see a problem in letting him out. This happened with Jaime last year. No real problem then, no real problem now.
I'm glad they managed to get both drivers out for the race. 3-5s behind the other new teams and a great 9-10s behind the established teams. I hope the times will tumble as the season progresses. Make them harder to lap, no?
As we can see from today, the other drivers have no problem overtaking the newer teams, they're too slow to cause a problem but fast enough to not cause a problem. I.e. Slow enough to lap easily but fast enough to not cause a tremendous slow down on the lap.

[gridwalker]

Oh dear dont get me started on health and safety! I can see how you are looking at it from your work point of view but the example of the wheels falling off isnt very good. Name me one team that hasnt had a problem with wheels in the past!?

Would you not allow renault to race last year due to health and safety after hungary? Did that make them and unfit dangerous team for the rest of the year....no. We did see a spring failure from the Brawn last year, showing the risk in the sport with a well tested car.
F1 is full of risk, teams and drivers know what they are signing up to.

I am looking at it from the perspective of someone who watched the accident that killed Senna Senior live and have witnessed all of the (sometimes ludicrous) changes that have been forced through since in the name of safety.

F1 will always be full of risk : testing is there (partially) to MANAGE that risk.

I have no problem with the team or the driver, just that an untested machine was allowed out into one of the most pressurised sessions of a race weekend.

The fact that this was also a team sporting a driver from Senna Snr's gene pool brought back a lot of bitter memories.

[thestig84]

Your right it wasnt ideal but im glad they did let them out and nothing went wrong. I saw Sennas accident too, fortunately it didnt really bring back those memories for myself.

[feynman]

Nonsense. Not being rude, but no other word for it.

It is only an assertion that F1 is about 'managing' risk, some others see it more about sticking two fingers up to risk. It is a fundamentally risky propostion to strap yourself into a racecar, pushing the envelope, pushing the loudness pedal, and pushing your luck. That is kinda the whole point.

All drivers have free-will, they are aware of consequences, they take responsibility; they should never be asked to abdicate that responsibility to others, to have those vital decisions managed for them.
Yeah we all get it, the relentless pussification and infantalisation of post-modern contemporary western-society, everyone told what to do, what not to do and to be in bed by 7 ... but F1 is supposed to be a noisy anachronistic throwback to a rawer, more robust, more self-reliant kind of worldview.

No-one is arguing for straw bales, but a proper sense of proportion is required.

If the mechanics raised no objections, if fully informed of the status, Chandhok was willing to drive that car, that is pretty much the beginning, middle and end of it as far as we are all concerned.

How many decades had Williams been building, testing and racing cars before that one pitched Senna into a wall. All sorts of very experienced teams have lost wings, had engines turn into fireballs, shredded tyres and collapsed suspensions in other qualifying sessions.

Every car has to do that first hotlap at some point in it's life. I'd much rather do one at a fully marshalled and helicoptered race weekend than some damp empty test-track.
HRT did nothing wrong, Chandhok kept out the way, drove carefully and responsibly, brought it home and races tomorrow (hydraulics permitting) - job done.

I have been impressed by his attitude and the way he carries himself. In interviews he seems a smart, switched-on, likable and decent chap, and the way he kept his foot in in his first ever set of F1 laps in a scratch-built car that had previously refused to leave the garage is to be admired and celebrated not condemned. That's the spirit.

F1 is supposed to be about The Right Stuff, riding the rocket, not an all-day course on paperwork and proper technique to lift a box. Those two things are different for a reason. We really should keep them seperate.

[bill shoe]

Well put, Feynman.

I want to see F1 get away from the mindset that "professionalism" exists for its own sake. I want to see F1 get away from professional uptight press conferences and professional no-risk environments. When I say risk I mean intellectual more than physical. I want F1 to be a place where people reach for stretch goals and sometimes achieve them.

You know, the HRT team has been in a tough spot all weekend but I haven't heard anything but enthusiasm from them. I think Chandok and Senna are living the risk-taking ethos of old-school F1 much better than some corporate drone who is grinding out the laptimes for a mid-pack team like Renault or whoever.

It was almost indescribably cool when Chandok took his car out onto the track for the first time during qualifying. The rest of the "professional" F1 fraternaty was wringing their hands over some legalistic issue about whether or not Chandok should be allowed in the race based on whether or not his first laps in qualifying were in a "practice" session. Who cares?

[gridwalker]

Feynman, your response indicates that you completely fail to grasp my point : I am not saying that F1 should have all risk removed, nor have I criticised Chandok or HRT ... My problem is actually with the stewards and the FIA.

HRT are there to compete and they should try to do so whenever they are allowed : I just do not believe that they should be allowed to perform a car shakedown during a competitive session on live television.

Drivers are not issued a super license unless they have completed a certain number of miles in comparable machinery : without that license, they are not allowed to compete in a grand prix weekend because they are considered dangerously inexperienced ... If this is the case, why is it unreasonable to apply a similar standard to the "rocket" they are supposed to ride?

Personally, I believe that a car should undergo a basic shakedown and an FIA specified minimum testing distance BEFORE they are allowed to go out and perform in front of millions of viewers.

After all of the fuss I have seen about the potential dangers of a certain front runner "stalling" their rear wing, I am surprised that I am the only person here who actually feels this way.

[D'Leh]

gridwalker, you're not getting approval, because you're steaming into the HRT thread and venting about how dangerous it is to let them compete. What are you expecting?

In reality there was no danger in having them do their thing. So your safety evangelism is practically unfounded. The more you try pressing the issue the less people are going to agree with you.

What you are aiming at is purely hypothetical. And I partially agree. The FIA should select more carefully for the next new team and it should monitor more closely. It would be better for everyone if new teams could take part in at least one test before the season.

But please, stop venting in this thread. You're doing nobody a favor with it.

[gridwalker]

I beg your pardon? Who is looking for approval? I am simply stating an opinion.

There are plenty enough heated discussions going on elsewhere on this site over much more minor issues, so I don't think I really care if my opinion ruffles a few feathers.

Even members of the BBC commentary team have vocalised similar opinions, just not quite so vociferously ...