Mercedes GP MGP W01

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Red Bull are in comparison RB5 to RB6 a few seconds quicker.

The RB6 did not look that different but, with a fully integrated DDD, and exhaust driven too, has given them a huge advantage over last years car. plus there suspension appears to love empty or full tanks, handy in a season of no refueling!

The BGP001 compared to the W01 is nowhere near as fast. The difference here is the advantage Brawn had was eroded over the winter and all their improvemnts have been overtaken by other teams.

By the end of last year already, McLaren and Red bull were the equal of Brawn if not, then faster!
The problem I feel is that Mercedes GP is nowhere near Ferrari McLaren and Red Bull in terms of staff or budget.

Next year will be the acid test for Merc and Brawn....Schumacher too come to think of it. I understand the resource restriction is being phased in over the winter of 2010 2011 and Mercedes are operating on that guise at present or slighlty over (440 staff).

Considering that even Renault have more manpower than Mercedes I think there achievments are par.

We should consider talking of the grey area that is this resource restriction. A new thread perhaps?

[mx_tifoso]

...

We should consider talking of the grey area that is this resource restriction. A new thread perhaps?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7695&hilit=resource

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Most kind Mx

Any chance you have the plans for the RB6 suspension and exhaust driven diffuser?
I will PM my email adress so I can print it off and fax it to Brackley

[marcush.]

The Mercedes needs better aero, no two ways about it.

Nothing is separate on F1 car, the whole reason for downforce is to enhance grip and the tires are built to handle the force. More downforce is more grip and you build more tire temp.

more grip is less slip= less tyre temp....its not as simple ,but working the tyres correctly is producing grip without heating them more.
I think of it in terms of what sort of work the tyres perform.If this is purely grip and less sliding the end result is less temp.Also true for most racing..too much sliding is same lap time but the tyre degrades in a short time compared to the guy operating at the same gs and forces but without excesive sliding ...
F1 tyres a re build for a certain level of downforce ..so I think if you are down on downforce you have to find ways to work the tyre adequately to operate in the correct window so you need to attack =slide more wich is abusing the compound and leads to early degradation.

[mx_tifoso]

You'd better hope they have 100M at their disposal to pay in fines.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

=D>

[RacingManiac]

more grip is less slip= less tyre temp....its not as simple ,but working the tyres correctly is producing grip without heating them more.
I think of it in terms of what sort of work the tyres perform.If this is purely grip and less sliding the end result is less temp.Also true for most racing..too much sliding is same lap time but the tyre degrades in a short time compared to the guy operating at the same gs and forces but without excesive sliding ...
F1 tyres a re build for a certain level of downforce ..so I think if you are down on downforce you have to find ways to work the tyre adequately to operate in the correct window so you need to attack =slide more wich is abusing the compound and leads to early degradation.

Sliding produce temperture, but the same is true for flexing/working the carcasses, which is also energy input into the tires and will also create tire temp. The 2 should be different and they work on different part of the tire make up. Maybe Jersey Tom have more insight on this.

[marcush.]

more grip is less slip= less tyre temp....its not as simple ,but working the tyres correctly is producing grip without heating them more.
I think of it in terms of what sort of work the tyres perform.If this is purely grip and less sliding the end result is less temp.Also true for most racing..too much sliding is same lap time but the tyre degrades in a short time compared to the guy operating at the same gs and forces but without excesive sliding ...
F1 tyres a re build for a certain level of downforce ..so I think if you are down on downforce you have to find ways to work the tyre adequately to operate in the correct window so you need to attack =slide more wich is abusing the compound and leads to early degradation.

Sliding produce temperture, but the same is true for flexing/working the carcasses, which is also energy input into the tires and will also create tire temp. The 2 should be different and they work on different part of the tire make up. Maybe Jersey Tom have more insight on this.

sure ,but we have to understand that the carcass is designed for a certain vertical load. If you don´t achieve it the spring is tooo high ,and if you drop the pressure the tyre will break or at least will not work...
Had something like this with DTM tyres ...on a low downforce Bimmer. These shitty tyres did NOT respond to any pressure changes.do what you want the times were the same.I reduced the pressure towards rediculous levels when one of the two drivers
stated .maybe the tyres are feeling a bit mushy in repsonse now-still the times were the same ,as were the temps. so these tyres in that application were to stiff for the downforce we produced.the dry weight of the car was same.

[Jersey Tom]

Generally speaking, the more total deflection on a tire, the more heat it will generate. If for whatever reason (downforce or otherwise) you're kicking the car around to high sideslip and over-saturating the tires, you'll also cook them.

However, all this talk of "Team X heats their tires perfectly" , "Team Y can never get temp in their tires" , etc, sure seems like pure speculation. The teams have their own tire temps, but no one else's. How are they to know if their competitors are running hotter, cooler, or the same? They all start with the things hot anyway... even if the issue was the tires cooling off over a run, how would you separate that from inflation changes?

Even just being able to say what tire temp will give you the fastest lap isn't trivial. It's not all about grip.

[marcush.]

Generally speaking, the more total deflection on a tire, the more heat it will generate. If for whatever reason (downforce or otherwise) you're kicking the car around to high sideslip and over-saturating the tires, you'll also cook them.

However, all this talk of "Team X heats their tires perfectly" , "Team Y can never get temp in their tires" , etc, sure seems like pure speculation. The teams have their own tire temps, but no one else's. How are they to know if their competitors are running hotter, cooler, or the same? They all start with the things hot anyway... even if the issue was the tires cooling off over a run, how would you separate that from inflation changes?

Even just being able to say what tire temp will give you the fastest lap isn't trivial. It's not all about grip.

BUT we know REDBULL use their tyres better than the rest ,at least for qualifying.
and as both drivers have the ability to do this it is fair tio assume that it is the car not the driver that is doing the trick.

[BreezyRacer]

Gee, this is turning into the "Red Bull is unbeatable" thread! Don't worry .. teams all over the sport are feeling the same ..

[Jersey Tom]

BUT we know REDBULL use their tyres better than the rest

How do we know this?

Even if it were true (big assumption), heat is only a tiny part of it.

[tarzoon]

Gee, this is turning into the "Red Bull is unbeatable" thread! Don't worry .. teams all over the sport are feeling the same ..

Can a moderator clean up this thread (including my post)?

This is becoming a redbull fanboy yinyang

[dren]

Mercedes is reverting back to a short wheel base for Monaco. I think just the front suspension will be different again.

[raceman]

Mercedes is reverting back to a short wheel base for Monaco. I think just the front suspension will be different again.

and Nico will again outpace Michael with shorter wheelbase car.