Red Bull RB6

[Spencifer_Murphy]

The ghost of ride height control rises again (or is it just the grumblings of a driver in a slower car?)

Lewis Hamilton on Red Bull:

“It’s a difficult to explain. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with [us in] Q3. They are obviously doing something that enables them to do that time, because in Q1 and Q2 we’re a lot closer than in Q3. Clearly there’s some kind of trick or something going on. I think bit by bit we’ll figure it out.

http://adamcooperf1.com/2010/05/12/lewi ... out-of-it/

Could it be as simple as rising rate springs? And also bear in mind whatever it is will be complimented by an infamously fuel efficient Renault engine in the back of the RB6. The savings per lap are probably quite small but add up over a race distance. By the time you put 50-65 laps worth of fuel into the cars that little difference could be worth as much as half a second quite easily I think.

I guess this theory is supported by the fact Q1 & Q2 are not the only low-fuel situations that the Mclarens are closer in terms of pace to the red Bulls. They are closer toward the end of a race as well.

[Spencifer_Murphy]

The ghost of ride height control rises again (or is it just the grumblings of a driver in a slower car?)

Lewis Hamilton on Red Bull:

“It’s a difficult to explain. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with [us in] Q3. They are obviously doing something that enables them to do that time, because in Q1 and Q2 we’re a lot closer than in Q3. Clearly there’s some kind of trick or something going on. I think bit by bit we’ll figure it out.

http://adamcooperf1.com/2010/05/12/lewi ... out-of-it/

Could it be as simple as rising rate springs? And also bear in mind whatever it is will be complimented by an infamously fuel efficient Renault engine in the back of the RB6. The savings per lap are probably quite small but add up over a race distance. By the time you put 50-65 laps worth of fuel into the cars that little difference could be worth as much as half a second quite easily I think.

I guess this theory is supported by the fact Q1 & Q2 are not the only low-fuel situations that the Mclarens are closer in terms of pace to the red Bulls. They are closer toward the end of a race as well.

[BreezyRacer]

First step denial .. step two coming soon!

[marcush.]

first of all the whole ride height issue will not really help in the quick parts of the track as there you are purelöy aero dominated and it is quite simple to know how low you have to be to get max aero ...the fuel weight is not dominant force in these areas .
so if there is something to gain in the slower stuff by being able to run the car lower without having the fuel in ,this will of course help big time in Q .as you will be in the optimum aero window for a longer time during the lap.
I think it is simply the bumpstops getting heated enough to loose a bit springrate .
what tehy do to prevent this happening in the race..who knows...but isn´t it interesting that Red Bull is picking up significantly speed in Q3 and not flying from the word go? I have not followed this in FP..really but it almost seems the car picks up speed over the session with reference to the session progressing..maybe i´m nbot so far off with my idea of a bleeding down system...so if it bleeds down in say 40 minutes we would have a nice explanation about what is going on...

[newbie]

The RB6 features relatively few updates for Race 6, Monaco. A high downforce 'ducted' rear wing (available since earlier in the season but never needed; not to be confused with an F-ducted rear wing) finally makes it public appearance, and the front brake duct inlets are larger to cope with the high cooling demands of the circuit (up there with Canada and Singapore).

[hollus]

I don't think the Red Bulls are getting mysteriously faster in Q3. They are always that fast, and knowing that they have a comfortable cushion of well over 1 second, maybe 2 seconds over whoever is going to end 11th in Q2, and even more in Q1, they just run easy through Q1 and Q2. I would do that.

[Shrieker]

I don't think the Red Bulls are getting mysteriously faster in Q3. They are always that fast, and knowing that they have a comfortable cushion of well over 1 second, maybe 2 seconds over whoever is going to end 11th in Q2, and even more in Q1, they just run easy through Q1 and Q2. I would do that.

If you look at Barcelona, that view is not entirely consistent with their race pace. Look at Vettel at Catalunya... Hamilton could somewhat keep up with him until the first round of stops.

Why did they have such a big gap at Q3, and not in the race itself? Judging from the fact that Red Bull guys can go as fast as they want, then why didn't Vettel at least build up enough of a gap with Lewis to keep his position after the pit stops ?

Definitely begs the question...

[BreezyRacer]

I don't think the Red Bulls are getting mysteriously faster in Q3. They are always that fast, and knowing that they have a comfortable cushion of well over 1 second, maybe 2 seconds over whoever is going to end 11th in Q2, and even more in Q1, they just run easy through Q1 and Q2. I would do that.

If you look at Barcelona, that view is not entirely consistent with their race pace. Look at Vettel at Catalunya... Hamilton could somewhat keep up with him until the first round of stops.

Why did they have such a big gap at Q3, and not in the race itself? Definitely begs the question...

Red Bull drivers are not going faster than they have to in the race. The only reason Hamilton got around Vettel last race was that Vettel had pit hold ups. Vettel should have had more of a cushion before pitting, but that's just lessons learned. No cars run their qualy pace during the race .. not even the infamous Mr Hamilton. They are all running a race to the end of the race, not individual lap times. Thus they manage the tires and brakes accordingly. And why go faster than needed? You are only pressing your luck, as in wheels breaking, brakes going off, spark plugs misfiring, engines expiring, trannies breaking, etc. It's all happened to many teams this year and will continue to do so.

[Intego]

I think it is simply the bumpstops getting heated enough to loose a bit springrate .

I also think that's the point.

what tehy do to prevent this happening in the race..who knows

What about heating up the bump stops on a temperature that lowers the car but will not be reached in a race stint. There's a window of just ten minutes in Q3.

Otherwise, why do teams have problems to find out what's going on? If RB is preparing for Q3 with special actions you can see unusual actions because teams may not work behind closed doors.

It would be interesting to compare lap times during the different phases of the race to see whether the Qualifying scenario is repeated or not. However, we don't know (and assume that not) whether Webber and Vettel or other drivers race at full activity at the end of the race.

The secret is in the car or there is no secret at all.

[univex]

Simple answer is Q3 is the first time they use the soft option tyres. It has been suggested the RB6 gets heat into the tyres more quickly than the others, therefore the gap is bigger in Q3.

[zgred]

[ringo]

I don't think the Red Bulls are getting mysteriously faster in Q3. They are always that fast, and knowing that they have a comfortable cushion of well over 1 second, maybe 2 seconds over whoever is going to end 11th in Q2, and even more in Q1, they just run easy through Q1 and Q2. I would do that.

If you look at Barcelona, that view is not entirely consistent with their race pace. Look at Vettel at Catalunya... Hamilton could somewhat keep up with him until the first round of stops.

Why did they have such a big gap at Q3, and not in the race itself? Definitely begs the question...

Red Bull drivers are not going faster than they have to in the race. The only reason Hamilton got around Vettel last race was that Vettel had pit hold ups. Vettel should have had more of a cushion before pitting, but that's just lessons learned. No cars run their qualy pace during the race .. not even the infamous Mr Hamilton. They are all running a race to the end of the race, not individual lap times. Thus they manage the tires and brakes accordingly. And why go faster than needed? You are only pressing your luck, as in wheels breaking, brakes going off, spark plugs misfiring, engines expiring, trannies breaking, etc. It's all happened to many teams this year and will continue to do so.

I find it hard to believe that Vettel was holding back when Hamilton was obvious holding on to him during the whole race. Never did Vettel's redbull seem faster than the Mclaren by 1 second a lap. The Mclaren was just as fast. I think Vettel was going as fast as his car and setup allowed him to.
The gap was almost constant, i was wondering myself if Vettel was saving tyres, but he never responded when the laps drew down or when Hamilton approached him. Even after being passed in the pitstops the gap was a going between 1.9 and 2.5 seconds, as if Hamilton was the one controlling the pace.
For both Malaysia, china, spain, the redbull has shown to be only as fast as ferrari and mclaren during the race in terms of overall pace. That's 3 of 5, enough evidence to suggest the car is not supernatural but just a mere amalgam of parts like the other cars.

[Mysticf1]

You are not taking everything into account, Vettel stated after the race that he was not happy with his balance and was therefore unable to get the laptime he needed to gap Hamilton...Webber on the other had not worries with pulling a gap on both drivers and controlling that gap...how is that possible if the RB6 is only as fast as the Mclaren on racepace? With no refueling races are no longer split into sprint races so we will never know true race pace until theres a real fight no one is going to go all out just for the glory, winning is winning it doesnt matter how big the gap is.

[bill shoe]

Red Bull is doing great. I'm suprised it needs to be said. I think it's an interesting question why they appear to be better in Q3 than the race, but pondering this issue is not the same as criticizing them.

The car reliably nails the sweet spot in Q3, then gets very finicky and inconsistent during races. There are many reasons why they could be faster overall, but so far nothing compelling to explain the Q3 vs race issue.

They may not have ride control or anything illegal, but there's a good chance they have some kind of trick.

[marcush.]

there is not much you could do apart from adjusting tyre pressures...as even the set of tyres is the same.
So if webbo and Seb have different car balance this is a tyre pressure thing ,right?

A mysteriously changing springrate ,or the lack of it due to a cooling pack/isolation packing not positioned corectly would easily explain it as well..as I
have doubts that RB is too lazy or short in expertise in adjusting tyre pressures for the race.I think it has to be something not easy to control.interestingly the RB crews play safeguard over the rear of the cars in pregrid...